A Christian works for peace
A FOXANGELICAL joins the NRA
A Christian loves her country
A FOXANGELICAL trusts Putin (because he hates gays as much as they do) and Russia more than the FBI, CIA, our military and the evidence of their own eyes
A Christian welcomes the stranger
A FOXANGELICAL screams for a wall
A Christian cares for the least of these
A FOXANGELICAL supports a tax cut for the rich at the expense of the poor
A Christian is humble
A FOXANGELICAL worships people who brag about power
A Christian lives free of fear
A FOXANGELICAL lives in a miasma of paranoid delusion seeing imaginary enemies- everywhere
A Christian turns the other cheek
A FOXANGELICAL buys more guns
A Christian seeks truth
A FOXANGELICAL says any fact that contradicts Trump is “fake” and truth be damned
A Christian treats women, minorities and children with love and respect
A FOXANGELICAL worships a groper-racist and cuts healthcare for babies
A Christian loves Creation
A FOXANGELICAL wants mining in national parks and says climate change is a hoax and wants industries deregulated, dirty water and air
A Christian is inspired by democracy
A FOXANGELICAL wants to subvert democracy and says “God is in charge!” Translation: we win all the time, election laws be damned!
A Christian wants consumers protected because she is authentically pro-life
A FOXANGELICAL wants corporation’s rights to pollute protected and to hell with people’s water, air and earth
A Christian believes in religious liberty for all
A FOXANGELICAL believes in religious liberty… only for Foxangelicals
A Christian believes in Jesus’ moral teachings
A FOXANGELICAL believes in Trump’s immoral lying grandstanding.
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Given what Frank just said, can we expect that Frank will no longer attack Christians and will instead direct his hatred toward “FOXANGELICALS”?? If Christianity is dead, as Frank claims, then it is no longer a threat and there is no reason to keep opposing it. We will see what Schaeffer does.
Bryson … a little fact you should be aware of … a wounded animal on the verge of dying is the most dangerous animal in the woods
FOXANGELICALS such a the likes of Gary Bryson post disturbing things such as this:
“Most white Alabama voters voted for Roy Moore, and almost all darkie Alabama voters voted for Doug Jones. Without the negro vote, Jones would not have won. Once again, negores have proven to be a liability rather than an asset.”
“To all the women who voted for Jones: abortion will improve your life dramatically.”
“I should not wish anyone were dead. But, it is true that those who will never become Christians would be better off if they were dead, since the longer they live, the more sins they commit and the greater will be their eternal punishment. Now I didn’t invent that system, God did. So if you have a problem with it, you should complain to the God of the Bible.”
“I wouldn’t expect people involved in interracial sex to be a fan of Roy Moore.”
“Are you white? Unless you are, you can’t pollute the White Race by having sex with a negro.”
“But those “roughly 40 other Christian denominations” are NOT CHRISTIANS!!! Only fundamentalist Christians are real Christians.”
“You think abortion is murder? Your liberal friends won’t like that. But, you are right, abortion is the murder of an unborn child. That’s why it’s immoral and unconstitutional. But, it still has some benefits. Women who have abortions are wicked. If they had the child instead of killing it, they would raise it to be wicked, like they are. We have an oversupply of wicked people already. So it benefits society for wicked women to not reproduce.”
“Non-Christians WILL burn in Hell for eternity because that is what the Bible says.”
“We have guns, and can arrange a civil war.”
That, right there, is why I couldn’t stand it anymore and had to flee. Why would I want to serve a god who produced this kind of hatred, and in his name? I refused to call myself a Christian. I wanted nothing to do with it. I believe I became an atheist, scraped to a bare bones, base spirituality. I’m still seeking, and I don’t know where I’ll end up, if anywhere, but what I do know for certain is that I do NOT want that.
I’ve just discovered Frank. I remember his parents well and, after seeing some older videos on YouTube, I remember him. I was so radical, it makes me sick to think of what I left in my wake in the 80s in Southern California. I shudder. I think Frank is an important voice in this situation, and I’m so glad he’s open about it. Although, like I said, I didn’t know he had changed.
I can’t imagine where you found those (typical) statements from Mr. Bryson, but he should stick to Facebook. I’ve noticed he has comments on every article I’ve read so far. It’s such a sad shame. I’m glad that there’s no such thing as hell, because people with those hateful beliefs would go there. And I wouldn’t want anyone to have to suffer eternal torture. No god that IS love would do that to anyone or thing he’s created.
If I may Ms Artis … I understand all too well your predicament and emotions . Fact is I’ve said many times having been in leadership in the church I’m not sure I why I did not lose my Faith along with my Religion when I finally came to the realization of what it was ( the church ) I was involved with and what it was becoming
And though I know what I’m about to say is no quick fix .. nor might it make any difference ..
.. there is Truth to be found within the Christian Faith and the Bible … regardless of all the efforts of the church ( Catholic and Protestants both ) to prove otherwise in their quest for power sacrificing the Truth on Mammon’s alter in order to attain it .
May you find that out for yourself one day . But in the mean time .. peace .
Thank you. I don’t dismiss the Bible or Jesus; however, I no longer believe it is the inerrant (and only) word of god.
Anne, Of course you dismiss both the Bible and Jesus. That’s why you became an atheist. You should be honest about what you believe.
Anne… There is a saying among Martial Artists, which says: “No defense is the best defense.” As such, don’t let Mr. Bryson put you on the defensive with his baiting comments… He is a very sick psychopath, who takes great pleasure in threatening others with eternal torture (hell) because they have come to realize that the bible can only be taken in an allegorical context (if you will) as opposed to factual and inerrant.
I hear you Anne Artis! As for those statements… Mr. Bryson has an apoplectic peeve with me for being in an interracial relationship with a wonderfully kind, compassionate, and talented Black man; whose goodwill, generosity of spirit, and warmth of character, make me feel as if I am the luckiest woman on earth to have him as my partner. Simply put, Mr. Bryson is so offended that a White woman would love and adore a Black man, that he can’t contain his outrage and disgust, particularly given that I may produce bi-racial children and thus “pollute” the white race, so he lashes out at me with all his pent-up hate and contempt. As in, all those comments were directed to me.
I’m so sorry that you have to deal with that vomit. But, I’m really happy for you that you’ve found what we all yearn for! ❤️
Don’t be sorry Anne… In fact, I am very pleased with myself for having flushed out Mr. Bryson’s White Supremacist agenda. Which from now on, and up until he decides to finally go back to the sewer he came from, I will be posting his own words right beneath his first comment at the top of Frank’s threads for all to read… And trust me, there is no one as tenacious as I am! As such, and while it may take time… He WILL eventually desist! Mark my words…
” And trust me, there is no one as tenacious as I am! As such, and while it may take time… He WILL eventually desist! Mark my words… ”
And know you have an ally in your quest .. who’s resolve is as strong as yours . Not that I’m demeaning or diminishing you in any way thinking you as a woman need one . But rather that we have this goal in common … and I will .. along with confronting it/she/him full on .. be watching your back as well
e.g. Common ground allies coming from two different sides with the same goal .
TJ… I don’t feel demeaned in any way. Quite the contrary, as there is strength in numbers. Not only that but by honoring our differences, we serve as an example of what TRUE Christianity is all about. That being treating others with kindness and respect. Of course, there are exceptions, such as those who seek to do harm by attempting to terrorize others going as far as delighting at the prospect of someone’s eternal torture and saying things such as: “Go to Hell. And I have the deep satisfaction of knowing you will” that “gays should be executed” and threatening a civil war.
” Thank you. I don’t dismiss the Bible or Jesus; however, I no longer believe it is the inerrant (and only) word of god ”
We all have our own roads to travel on . Or as C.S. Lewis once said we all have our own stories and only we ( and God if one believes in Him ) knows what that story might be .. with none of us knowing how the final chapter might read.. especially the final chapter of another’s story . May yours be as safe and a peaceful one as possible
And as with Ms Abadie .. may we revel in the common ground we have standing firm against a common enemy … despite our differences
Bryson is just a sock puppet of Frank and Martin designed to smear Christians…and notice the similarity between Martins and Franks vile comments and similar sentence structure
Like I said on the other page Ms Abadie … the likes of what Bryson represents are emptying churches across the land faster than a hundred Frank Schaeffer’s could ever hope to as American evangelicals and fundamentalists implode themselves into an oblivion the extent of which one can only guess
Book recommend ; ” At the End of an Age ” by John Lukacs … and ” The Death of the Church ” by Mike Regele and Mark Schultz .
Both written by Christians in the 90’s with both being more prescient than most would be willing to admit to ( I read them when they were first published )
And on the topic of Hell… Here is an interesting article I posted just last night on Franks previous thread:
After peering into the mind of this Gary Bryson (who relishes on telling people that will go to hell with such perverse passion to be sadistically bone-chilling), I must commend you for your efforts of speaking the truth about these so-called “Evangelical Christians,” which although I have always known them to be racist nutjobs, it was not until I engaged one of them directly that I came to see how truly dangerously deranged they are, and the importance of those who share such despotic beliefs, are not elected for office.
To wit, I saved parts of an article I read some few years back by an atheist that writes under the name of Daniel Fincke, whom perhaps you know of. If not, here is what he had to say about those who relish telling others that they will go to hell:
Why Atheists Resent Being Told We Are Going To Hell
Yesterday I was rather surprised that one of my very most politically progressive, most liberally theist, and most pro-atheist friends asked me why atheists sometimes get upset (even apoplectic) about being told we’re going to hell. This friend asked why this should bother us if we thought the idea that we were going to hell was complete nonsense anyway. Did this signify that the offended atheists held some residual fear that there may be a hell after all?
I cannot speak for all atheists of course. But let me speak for myself and other possible atheist mindsets.
First of all, I don’t have any residual fear of hell whatsoever. I think the idea of hell is epically preposterous and implausible. Once or twice in 13 years of being an atheist, the irrational fear based side of my brain has asked my reason to reassess the idea just to make sure–and promptly that fear has been laughed at by my reason.
Second of all, telling us we are going to hell is formally a threat and threats are inherently vicious and disturbing things—even if one does not believe they will be (or could be) carried out. And even if a given believer does not like the prospect of our going to hell and is desperately trying to warn us, they’re almost always quite happily on the side of the person they imagine is ultimately behind the threat.
Now there are many different ways that believers tell us we’re going to hell or, at least, that we deserve to if we don’t convert to their religion. The nastiest believers tell us we’re going to hell with a lot of relish and with little provocation. Just being an atheist is enough to get a contemptuous, hateful attitude from them.
Other believers tell us we’re going to hell out of passive-aggressive vindictiveness when we have irritated them. Sometimes an atheist may have merited anger by being obnoxious in an actual out of bounds way–but even in those cases that is no cause or justification for threats. And many times atheists have not rightly merited any such anger. All we have done is express our genuine opinions. Often we have even given rational philosophical or scientific arguments. Sometimes all we have done is mention that we’re atheists!
To have people respond to one’s identity statements with a threat is upsetting. To have someone respond to a philosophical or scientific discussion with a threat is upsetting. Such threats send the message that this person really does not believe in freedom of thought or humility about one’s opinions. They send the message that not only should you change what you think–which would be an okay thing to argue for–but that you must both change what you are and surrender your right to think freely or you will be tortured. Such believers convey that they are so certain of their views that they want to emotionally manipulate those who disagree by terrifying them into submission whenever they have not been convinced by arguments. (And, just to be clear, I don’t like or tolerate it when atheists resort to bullying behavior any more than I like it when theists do.)
In their decision to threaten hell sometimes believers also indicate that they are simultaneously closing their minds and smugly and happily assuring themselves that their god will get back at you for upsetting them. In those moments, atheists might think that believers want us to suffer in hell because we have pissed them off. It is bad enough that they choose to worship a being they believe sends people to disproportionately cruel, unusual, unjust, and everlasting punishment. But it is disgusting when they start identifying with, approving of, and vicariously imagining that god’s supposed plan to torture you. And it is even more insidious when their approval is motivated by their own vindictive, wounded ego because they have lost an argument or by their bigoted subconscious tribalism because you are simply not a member of their group.
Wanting anyone else to be eternally tortured is pretty creepy. Sometimes in anger, any of us may have thoughts that we’d like someone to die flash through our minds. If you’re like me, you’re horrified and repulsed in those moments. If you’re a violent and hateful person you may start making scary death threats. If you’re a Christian you may just baptize your hateful thought as “concern” for your irritant’s soul before it even becomes fully conscious. You call your resentful defensiveness “love” and by telling the atheist they’re going to hell you do several satisfying things at once. You signal to the outsider that not being a member of your tribe has penalties. You reaffirm your own good standing in your tribe and with your God as someone who is an obedient and appreciative recipient of your God’s gracious offer of salvation. You get to both tell someone off and call it love. You get to count yourself one of the special insiders while feeling yourself a properly humble worshipper.
But worst of all you do all this in lieu of thinking. You do this as a preemptive mental clampdown that protects you from having to reassess your views or, even scarier, reconsider your identity. Now, this tendency to defensively clamp down is something that all people should be able to empathize with to an extent. We are all prone to feeling threatened and reacting defensively, on an automatic brain processing level, to cognitive dissonance. But even so there are still reasons that atheists find Christians’ and Muslims’ beliefs in hell, and mentions of it, so upsetting.
For one thing, while we can all understand being protective of one’s beliefs, it is upsetting to atheists that some Christians and Muslims want to believe in hell. Of all the beliefs to want so passionately to hold onto, this is among the very worst. This is about the least compassionate and most vile of doctrines and so why would anyone be agitated to rationalize it and insist it’s real? This is a doctrine that a being totally undetectable by the senses has the right to torture people for the crime of not seeing any reason to think it exists. It is a doctrine that finite wrongdoing deserves infinite punishment. It is a doctrine that a being who is perfect love punishes those who don’t love him as though he were a psychotically violently stalker and domestic abuser. And it’s so incredibly unrealistic as to be a childish and cartoonish threat that insults the intelligence as much as the conscience. So why defend the belief so adamantly?
I am sure many believers in hell vigorously defend it because they see it as of apiece with other beliefs they are more invested in—like the belief in heaven or in their sacred scriptures’ literal truth, etc. It may be that cognitively just accepting the wishful thinking parts of their religions without the uglier parts would involve facing up to the self-serving, too-good-to-be-true character of their implausible beliefs. They can tell that there are dimensions of their beliefs that are, at least to modern understanding, bizarre and fantastic. Part of making them feel real may be committing themselves to the parts that they don’t like as much as the ones they do. That makes it seem more compellingly like reality–which notoriously has both good parts and upsetting parts.
If they catch themselves denying the upsetting parts they may feel they are arbitrarily picking and choosing and the whole thing will unravel. Of course, they pick and choose what to believe anyway (and some believers are happy to throw away hell in the process), but it’s hard for them to do that as a self-aware emotional reaction based on their dislike of the concept of hell. Such would make too conscious for comfort the reality that their emotions are driving what they believe in ways that are arbitrary and not rationally defensible.
But what they seem blind to, even in that case, is that even if God was real and hell was just a harsh reality to accept, it is wrong emotionally to love such a being. Many of us atheists are clear on this. Were we to be convinced that the Abrahamic God was real and was like He is in the Bible and in traditional Christian and Islamic theologies, we still wouldn’t worship or be capable of sincerely loving Him any more than we would worship or love Josef Stalin or Ghadafi or Saddam Hussein or Adolf Hitler or any other sadistic tyrant who enforced obedience by torturing and murdering dissidents. Morally such a being is a monster.
Why does a Christian not only want to believe in such a being (and want this so much so that they are outright hostile to atheists simply for making counter-arguments and for existing as examples of people who do not believe) but also to love that being? Because that being is offering a blissful everlasting life? A lot of atheists find this to be a troublingly selfish motivation!
Imagine being offered that you can live forever if you go to the mansion of a sadistic torturer. He will provide you with endless amusements and happiness. He will also be endlessly torturing in the basement people who refuse his request. Would you go? Would you do so willingly? Would you go happily? Would you suck up to him and tell him he’s awesome and work yourself up into loving him? Would you make excuses for him and tell yourself he just must have his reasons? Would you get defensive on his behalf? Would you convince yourself he is the epitome of justice itself? Would you blame the people he tortures for using their free will to refuse him when they could have just loved him? To a lot of atheists, the fervent desire of Christians and Muslims not only to accept such an invitation to such a mansion but also to believe in such a mansion and to eagerly defend the morality of such an arrangement is twisted.
Other believers in hell are very squeamish about the concept. They hope God will find a way to save everyone. They stress, and take hope in, their own ignorance about what God will ultimately do. They do not really know who he will or won’t save or by what criteria in the final analysis. They do not know others’ hearts well enough to judge anyone. They don’t want to be judgmental. Etc., etc. But a lot of us atheists would wish they went even further. We wish they would reconsider calling a being who even made the threat part of his holy books and religions moral in the first place. I for one wish they would decide that even if they believe in him they’ll refuse to worship him if it turns out that he sends people to hell. Again: why are these people so desperate to believe in a being who is, at best, morally “uncertain” in this regard? Why do they want heaven if they know many people they would never want tortured will be tortured by him?
Some believers are anguished because of their belief in hell, precisely because they believe their loved one will suffer. Yet, even these believers choose to slavishly and worshipfully side with the cosmic dictator who threatens to inflict eternal torment on their beloved children, friends, parents, or spouse! What abdication of loyalty and conscience! They blame the future victim of this tyranny rather than the tyrant, rather than question for a legitimate second the actual justice of the arrangement.
When God told Abraham he was going to destroy Sodom and Gomorrah, Abraham desperately pleaded and bargained with him not to do it. He wasn’t the happy yes-man siding with his frightening god that so many contemporary Christians are. My recommendation to Christians, if it was good enough for Abraham to try to convince God to change his mind about Sodom and Gomorrah why don’t you put your energies into praying there is no hell instead of trying to rationalize why one would be fair for us non-believers?
Instead, you make excuses: “God is powerful and that makes God just no matter what he does” and “People who go to hell freely choose that fate”. Such go the rationalizations which abuse morality and language in a fell swoop.
But at least you are sincere! Right? You believe to the point of great sorrow to yourselves. And can’t we at least approve of your conscientious consistency by which you believe terrible things if you follow logically from your other beliefs? And if you proselytize us and desperately warn people to try to spare us hell—well, given your beliefs is that not more loving than letting your loved ones go to hell for fear of upsetting them on Earth? Aren’t those others who also believe in hell and yet don’t have the courage to do everything it takes to get their friends saved the truly poor friends? How could a true friend indifferently neglect their friend’s salvation for fear of upsetting them with the message they need to be saved?
To an extent, I appreciate that you are operating conscientiously and consistently within their beliefs. But I do not have to confuse this for a generally admirable conscientiousness. If you really are so damned worry about your friends you should be multiple times more scrupulous in figuring out the facts. You should research much more vigorously the arguments for evolution before calling it a lie and you would discover that the Bible’s ability to provide literal, special, divinely accurate truth is not only not at the level of infallibility–it’s at the level of colossal failure. You would also learn this if you showed as much conscientiousness about studying history or philosophy or other religions, etc. Sure, some of you might still believe in that case. But you would be far less likely to believe in the fantastic supernatural hell and far less likely to blithely adopt the crude morality of hellfire preachers.
You make choices about what to be conscientious about and what not to put any admirable effort into at all. I really can’t fault you for wanting what you really believe is best for me and trying to save me. But I really can fault you for being so lazy and shitty about figuring out what I really need.
I was once one of you. But I conscientiously did seek out the truth about what was true and what people really need. I found out I was wrong. I expect you to do the same if you’re honest, as I was. I fault you, intellectually or morally as the case may be when you fail to do so.
But don’t worry. I don’t think you or anyone else deserves (or will receive) everlasting torture for such culpable wrongness.
” But don’t worry. I don’t think you or anyone else deserves (or will receive) everlasting torture for such culpable wrongness ”
But ahhh.. regardless of you and I being on apposite sides of the fence Faith wise * … methinks we’d both agree … the likes of what Bryson represents are living in a hell of their own creation…. addled by paranoia … consumed with conspiracy … riddled with fear , hate and anger … but worst of all … allowing themselves to be duped by a clown who’s sole agenda is his wealth and their subservience
* Ironic isn’t it ? The strange and previously impossible alliances etc the likes of a Trump and todays evangelical / fundamentalists have created ?
Ahhh …. the joys of recognizing common grace , common ground as well as who the common enemy is .. despite our differences .
Birds of a feather flock together.
Nothing wrong with having differences in opinion as long as these opinions do not harm anyone. That is what diversity is all about! If anything, they serve to broaden the mind… And yes! I do agree that these Fundamentalist Christians do live in a hell of their own creation. As for Bryson… He is a sociopath, so aside from rage, anger, and a lust for power, he is incapable of feeling much of anything else.
Actually, is someone is getting ready to drive off a cliff, is warning them about it a threat?
As to Mr. Finke, I am familiar with his site and he is an atheist who hates Christians.
Atheists are convinced the will win and the thing is, they might. And what is to stop them from killing millions like the last times they have had complete political control?
Simple. They promise they won’t to that again. You have their WORD on that.
” Birds of a feather flock together ”
If you’re talking about intelligent , caring and discerning people who question ( as Scripture mandates ) t what is true … and are willing regardless of their differences to work together in order to oppose neofascist liars (pretending to be populists ) as well as mindless little sycophant quisling and drones who follow in lock step to the tune of their pantheon of gods and leaders like lemmings to their own destruction ..
well then ..
Yes we do . Especially when it comes to opposing the likes of you .
martin, your agreements with frank and abadie, et al, extend far beyond politics. They are also theological and philosophical agreements.
Once again Bryson … you’re READING INTO MY WORDS rather than reading what it is I’m actually saying .
FYI … if you’d READ my comments .. yes Frank , Ms Abadie ( learn to address people with respect if you wish to receive the same in kind ) and I have a lot of common ground above and beyond politics
And if you so much as knew … never mind understood what the Biblical doctrine of Common Grace / General Revelation was ….
.. you’d know why .
Problem is Bryson … like all things relating to the Bible … you know nothing other than that which you in the depths of your volitional abyss and self created hell chose to believe .
BS. You are just trying to excuse your heresy and unbelief. You have MUCH more in common with the likes of Schaeffer and abadie than you do with any Christian I have ever known. You may be a Christian in your own mind, but that’s as far as it goes.
” BS. You are just trying to excuse your heresy and unbelief. You have MUCH more in common with the likes of Schaeffer and abadie than you do with any Christian I have ever known. You may be a Christian in your own mind, but that’s as far as it goes ”
Ahhhh … Bryson … the only bulls**t ’round these here parts is coming from your keyboard … constantly
As well as the only heretic in the room … being you … oh pardon me … meant to say uninformed ignorant stupid hypocritical heretical polytheistic pagan liar pretending to be a Christian
May God give you everything you deserve.
” May God give you everything you deserve ”
I’m sure He will …. and thank you .
As for you though … well … in light of the volitional hell of your own creation you’re living in … your being nothing more than a bunch of digital 0’s and 1’s on a page with no relevancy , substance or meaning what so ever …
I’m afraid out of kindness I cannot in good conscience … offer you the same
God promised not to let people like you into Heaven, and I believe Him.
Interesting that its people who reject Christianity, like Schaeffer does, who think they are experts on what Christians believe and how they should behave.
…. and again Bryson .. Frank knows more about Christianity and the Bible than you’ll ever be capable of learning . Suffice it to say just cause he doesn’t believe it any more does not mean he doesn’t know it like the back of his hand … which he does
And ahhh … FYI … can you guess who knows more about the Bible and Christ than any being on earth … knows that it is true … yet does not believe it ?
Satan
They care nothing for the earth or anything that lives on it because they think Jesus is at the doorstep, and there is no future for this universe. It’s a death cult.
Anne, Don’t you believe that someday the Sun will burn out? What will become of life on earth then?
Gee Bryson .. in light of the fact that Original Sin has everything on the blink …. including the sun etc … once Christ returns and sets everything straight … functioning as it should … who knows what will become of the sun … the stars and the planets especially in light of the fact that the Bible is not clear about that .
I believe Anne said she is an atheist. So she probably believes that the Sun will burn out someday.
So other than trying in vain to appear clever .. whats your point ?
I said I believe I became an atheist. What I meant by that is, I had to strip myself of all the hateful doctrines of the “church”…meaning religion…and begin again to find who god really is.
Anne, Who do you believe god really is?
No. I’m not a scientist, and I haven’t studied that. I’m more concerned with today. I’m not worried about the sun burning out.
The primary pantheon of gods worshipped by the pantheistic pagan cult that contemporary evangelical / fundamental christianity has become ( divided into tiers according to rank and importance )
Money / Mammon ( their one true god )
Greed , Power and Lust ( Mammon’s three bastard sons all of whom point towards Mammon )
Ayn Rand ( their holy spirit / guide and primary oracle )
————
The apostles .. Arms & Guns ( the gods they’ll place above Mammon if push comes to shove and the ones they will sacrifice anything and everything for )
———-
Celebrity ( their muses and secondary oracles / prophets )
Entertainment ( their Pan who leads them down the road to conspiracy , lies and celebrity )
and his sidekick ..
Social Media ( a minor god who’s sole purpose is to both entertain and constrain creating an intellectual vacuum across the land )
etc etc etc
So where does the God of the Bible and the Bible itself fit in you may ask ?
It is the white sheet they use to cover over their true beliefs and gods in order to appear righteous while in the depths of sin and depravation
Suffice it to say I take no pleasure in writing this . In fact it deeply pains me as I watch the Faith I’ve defended so rigorously for over four decades volitionally condemn itself and all within its sphere of influence to a life of lies using the name and Bible of the True God in vain while sacrificing all aspects of the Truth in the process .
The doctrines of sin and eternal punishment for sins are not new. They have been in the Bible for thousands of years. Jesus talked a lot about those subjects. Its interesting that many of the same people who reject the doctrine of Hell pretend they like Jesus and that he had some good things to teach.
…. the problem is when hypocrites such as what you’re trying to represent take those Truths and alter/change them/rewrote them in order to suit their own agenda which is the acquisition of power bastardizing the Truth into some sort of Ay Randian interpretation in their/your worship of the pantheon of gods they’ve created in their own image
Which is to reiterate Bryson .. next time you’re asking yourself why so many are rejecting the Truth … take a good long look in the mirror . YOU ARE the reason … along with all others like you
martin, You mean if I were an atheist, people would accept Christianity who are not believing it now? I don’t think that is true.
No … What I mean … versus what you’re trying to read into my words is
If you truly were a Biblical Christian behaving as such rather than acting out like some hypocritical street corner doomsday lunatic .. then the churches wouldn’t be emptying their pews … of believers and non-believers alike
Then you DO mean that if I were an atheist, people would be turning to Christianity. If I didn’t believe the Bible, people would be attracted to Jesus who are not now. Of course there is no truth in what you say. People who reject Christ would still reject him, even if I were not here.
For many who have walked away from the Fundamentalist Christian church as for example, I have, it was never about rejecting Jesus and his teachings of love, kindness, empathy, and forgiveness. It was about rejecting that which contradicts said teachings. As well as recognizing the hypocrisy of those who feel that as long as they believe in the bible, they can do whatever evil they want including rape, torture, and murder, being that according to them, their “belief” in the bible is what atones whatever sins they may commit. Which is why so many pastors are rapists.
Once again Bryson …. READ what someone has written … rather than READING INTO their words that which you want to see in order to further your agenda and avoiding any form of genuine conversation and debate that might ensue .
” Then you DO mean that if I were an atheist, people would be turning to Christianity ”
Bryson .. seriously … are you really that stupid or is it that your reading comprehension skills are that of a 4th grader ?
Cause ahhh … Bryson … I said no such thing … what I said was if you were a REAL Christian in the Biblical sense ( which you are not ) .. then more unbelievers would at least be willing to listen … as well as believers not walking out the doors in droves as they are … because of the likes of you .
Learn to READ … rather than constantly making a fool of yourself
martin, Aren’t there REAL Christians in Christian churches? Why can’t unbelievers listen to them? The reason is, they don’t like what they are saying either. The bottom line is, unbelievers are unbelievers because they don’t believe the Bible. They don’t like what the Bible says. They reject the Biblical doctrines of sin and that God punishes sinners. They think God is mean and immoral. THAT is why they won’t believe and why they won’t come to church.
” Aren’t there REAL Christians in Christian churches? Why can’t unbelievers listen to them? The reason is, they don’t like what they are saying either. The bottom line is, unbelievers are unbelievers because they don’t believe the Bible. They don’t like what the Bible says. They reject the Biblical doctrines of sin and that God punishes sinners. They think God is mean and immoral. THAT is why they won’t believe and why they won’t come to church ”
Unfortunately Bryson .. the problem you cant see whats right in front of your face … choosing to ignore your own guilt and culpability with lame excuses and ludicrous lies .. rather than face what you are and what damage you are doing
Or to put it another way …
Deal with the two ton ten foot long I beam sticking out of the socket where your eye should be …
.. rather than concerning yourself with the speck of dust in everyone else’s !
FYI .. READ your Bible Bryson . Who did Christ condemn .. spew out his vitriol and condemn left and right during His time on earth ? The Sinners ? … No .. fact is aside from the Apostles Christ spent the majority of his time with sinners .. of all kinds
Whereas it was the religious hypocrites of the day that received Christ’s wrath , condemnations and insults .
And that is you … a religious hypocrite …
And ahhh … Bryson … remember …. the Bible is quite clear who will receive the harshest judgement in the end . Religious hypocrites claiming to be christians and teachers .
The damage I’m doing? What damage is that? Telling people what the Bible says ‘about their future is damaging? I’ve never seen you tell Schaeffer or Abadie they are on their way to Hell, even though they are. Why is that?
Because Gory… No one is going to hell. Simply put, if you knew anything about physics, you’d know of the impossibility of an eternal hell of fire and brimstone as described in the bible, which BTW was written by men (not god) who believed to have been “divinely” inspired, with little to no knowledge of how the Universe really works. Not that we know much more about such things these days, being that we are as of yet in our neo-infancy when it comes to our understanding of the complexities of our Universe. But at least we know more than we did over 2,000 years ago, to where we can at least figure that there is no hell as described in the bible. And on that note, here is a rather comical explanation of why that is so…
https://www.huffingtonpost.com/brett-gallaher/four-reasons-why-you-are-_b_4152013.html
” “We have guns, and can arrange a civil war.”
As for this little trip down memory lane provided by Ms Abadie
Here’s a clue Bryson .. We’ve not only got the guns … but we’ve got the lawyers and the money as well . Not to mention unlike your kind we know how to use them all to the fullest effect
And ahh … if its a civil war y’alls a wantin .. I say …. bring it on boy … and lets see how well y’all holds up against the might of the US Military when they turn their weapons and guns e on you . Which is exactly what will happen . Fact is Bryson .. the contingency plans are already in place and have been since the day Trump won the electoral college vote .
But before they do … we’ll be glad ta shows y’all a real good time … if’n y’all catches my drift
” martin, As usual, you are wrong ”
No Bryson …. you’re projecting again…. you’re the one who’s always wrong about everything ..
…and as far as this accusation about who your gods are .. I’m dead right to the nines . .Or to borrow the wisdom of the cartoon bard .. Popeye ;
” I Knows what I knows and I Knows I don’t Know everything … but what I Knows I knows very well ”
And the fact is Bryson … I know you and what you believe all too well
” The damage I’m doing? What damage is that? Telling people what the Bible says ‘about their future is damaging? I’ve never seen you tell Schaeffer or Abadie they are on their way to Hell, even though they are. Why is that? ”
Bryson … suffice it to say … and to reiterate for the hundredth time … it is the blatant hypocrisy and heresy spewing from the likes of yourself that is driving genuine Believers out of the church as well as keeping unbelievers from walking in
And if you’re too buried within the depths of your heresy , stupidity and arrogance to realize that … more the pity on you … cause yer gonna be needin all the pity you can get when the hell on earth you’ve created and crawled into collapses around you crushing you into oblivion
The sad thing is … unfortunately .. you’ll take a lot of good people down with you as well . And then there’s the eternal consequences spelled out so thoroughly in Scripture for a self proclaimed christian who leads others to perdition such as yourself
Ahhhh … but then Bryson … you’d have to of read an actual Bible to know that … rather than skimming the occasional bible reference on social media
martin, The reason you haven’t said anything to Schaeffer and abadie is YOU DON’T BELIEVE THEY ARE IN PERIL BECAUS YOU DON’T BELIEVE THE BIBLE!!!! You’re as much an infidel as they are!! Your religious claims are just so much BS!! You prove you don’t believe the Bible by your words and deeds.
” martin, The reason you haven’t said anything to Schaeffer and abadie is YOU DON’T BELIEVE THEY ARE IN PERIL BECAUS YOU DON’T BELIEVE THE BIBLE!!!! You’re as much an infidel as they are!! Your religious claims are just so much BS!! You prove you don’t believe the Bible by your words and deeds ”
Ahhh … Bryson .. y’alls doin yer dum**s substance addled (ASS)umption thang again BOY ! Once again exposing your blatant stupidity for one and all to see
I don’t say anything to Frank or Ms Abadie because I know for a fact that they both know full well what the consequences of their beliefs may be assuming they are wrong
Fact is child … as I’ve told you many times … Frank knows more about the Bible , Christianity and the Consequences thereof than that tiny little substance addled mind of yours will ever be capable of comprehending
And ahhh … child … if you’d been paying attention .. more than once I have confronted Frank about throwing away the baby ( Faith ) with the bathwater ( what the evangelical fundamentalist church has become )
martin, If Frank knows what consequences await him, then he doesn’t care what those consequences are. He would rather oppose God, even if it means eternal damnation. Well that does fit right in with Romans 1:32.
” You prove you don’t believe the Bible by your words and deeds ”
FYI parroting others words and accusations verbatim is a sure sign of stupidity and desperation . Not to mention you’re projecting again … which is a major indication of mental degradation and decline
Or alternatively ..you’re a little child troll … lets go with … troll ..
Bryson … get real … these are your gods ……….
Money / Mammon ( your one true god )
Greed , Power and Lust ( Mammon’s three bastard sons all of whom point you towards Mammon )
Ayn Rand ( your holy spirit / guide and primary oracle .. whether you realize it or not )
————
The apostles .. Arms & Guns ( the gods you ’ll place above Mammon if push comes to shove and the ones you would be willing to sacrifice anything and everything for )
———-
Celebrity ( your muses and secondary oracles / prophets )
Entertainment ( your Pan who leads you down the road of perdition to conspiracy , lies and celebrity )
and his sidekick ..
Social Media ( a minor god who’s sole purpose is to both entertain and constrain creating an intellectual vacuum across the land )
etc etc etc
… not the One and True God of the Bible
martin, As usual, you are wrong.
Ahhh heck … put one in the wrong slot …again ;
————————————-
” martin, As usual, you are wrong ”
No Bryson …. you’re projecting again…. you’re the one who’s constantly wrong about everything ..
…and as far as this accusation about who your gods are .. I’m dead right to the nines . .Or to borrow the wisdom of the cartoon bard .. Popeye ;
” I Knows what I knows and I Knows I don’t Know everything … but what I Knows I knows very well ”
And the fact is Bryson … I know you and what you believe all too well
I have to head to work for a few hours. I have to read all of this before I can respond further.
If you read what Frank said in the post prior to this one, you find that Frank isn’t trying to get Christians to adhere to the Bible and Christian beliefs. Instead, he is trying to get Christians to reject the Bible and Christian doctrines because Frank does not believe them and thinks the Bible is harmful to society.
Then, in this post, Frank is trying to pretend he wants Christians to live like the Bible instructs. But not really. He is trying to twist the Bible into what he wants it to say. What he wishes it said. And apply it to the current situation. His intent has not changed. He still holds the Bible, the God of the Bible, and Christians, in contempt. And he is still trying to get Christians to do what Frank wants instead of what God wants.
If you’ve read any of Gary Bryson’s comments … ( a sample of which can be found in Margarita Abadie.s comment at the top of the page ; 12/18/17 3:08 pm ) You’d know this Bryson character is a bigoted racist hate mongering lying hypocrite pretending to be a christian who’s sole purpose for commenting here is to draw attention to himself in the desperate and futile attempt to give meaning to his otherwise meaningless vapid and inane little virtual life
In other words … he/she/it … is an internet .. Troll
martin, to you, a troll is anyone who disagrees with you. Well, I certainly do that.
No Bryson … a troll is ;
“In Internet slang, a troll (/troʊl, trɒl/) is a person who sows discord on the Internet by starting quarrels or upsetting people, by posting inflammatory,[1] extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community (such as a newsgroup, forum, chat room, or blog) with the intent of provoking readers into an emotional response[2] or of otherwise disrupting normal, on-topic discussion,[3] often for the troll’s amusement ” ( Wikipedia )
In other words … you !
Cause little child ;
1) You sure as hell aint no adult …
2) You know nothing about Scripture Doctrine etc
3) You most certainly are not anything even so much as resembling even the vilest of Alt Right christofascists ..
4) Never mind an evangelical or even a low life heretical fundamental christian .
5) Your sole purpose is not to engage in conversation … but rather to enrage with lies accusations and insults
I don’t lie. But one of my goals here is to enrage you pagans.
FYI Bryson … seen Trump’s verifiable outright major * POTUS lies scorecard yet ?
Suffice it to say if you added up all the outright verifiable major POTUS lies .. of Obama’s 8 years .. along with GWB’s eight years .. as well as more than half of Clinton’s eight year reign ..
.. you still would not equal the number of outright verifiable and major POTUS lies Trump has …. in less than 11 months ( 108 )
* ( major infers potential serious consequences for the nation or its economy )
” I don’t lie. But one of my goals here is to enrage you pagans ”
Bryson …All you ever do is lie … about everything . And Bryson … the only verifiable pagan in the room … is what you’re trying to pretend to be .
And ahhh .. sparky … it’ll take a whole lot more than a pile of white trash wanna be little troll such as yourself to enrage me . Aggravate me ? Annoy me ? Yes .. but then again so do mosquitos
” Anne, Of course you dismiss both the Bible and Jesus. That’s why you became an atheist. You should be honest about what you believe ”
Better an atheist than a two faced troll pretending to be a hypocritical heretical fundamentalists christian any day .
Fact is I’d rather spend an eternity in a room full of atheists than spend five minutes with a hypocritical heretic . But then again … that was Jesus stance as well .
If I was pretending to be a Christian, I would just agree with everything you say.
” If I was pretending to be a Christian, I would just agree with everything you say ”
Errr …. nope
“Trolling is a game about identity deception, albeit one that is played without the consent of most of the players. The troll attempts to pass as a legitimate participant, sharing the group’s common interests and concerns; the newsgroups members, if they are cognizant of trolls and other identity deceptions, attempt to both distinguish real from trolling postings, and upon judging a poster a troll, make the offending poster leave the group. Their success at the former depends on how well they – and the troll – understand identity cues; their success at the latter depends on whether the troll’s enjoyment is sufficiently diminished or outweighed by the costs imposed by the group ” ( Wikipedia )
By the way child … I’d just ran across that quote and was wondering when to post it
Thanks for playing
Frank Schaeffer’s little bug jar…
lov it…
Foxxangelicals?
really funny….
Nine
Just so you know … the word Foxangelicals was coined by the NYTimes writer Amy Sullivan … and shame on Frank for not giving credit where credit is due .
———-
Bob Dylan’s side trip into Christianity
A couple of prominent memories popped up last night
1) I remember once the evangelical feeding frenzy was in full swing with the likes of CCMM etc proclaiming Dylan as the new prophet and earthly messiah I was standing by one of Dylan’s family members watching the audience before it was time to go on stage when she said ;
” These people have no idea what they’ve gotten themselves into ”
To which I could only agree
Then … after seeing first hand just how desperate christendom was for a celebrity ( the beginning of my eyes becoming wide open ) and when Dylan finally had had enough of them trying to make him into what he was not for their own purposes … I remember the day clearly when during sound check he handed the band a completely different song list from the previous show that once again included all his old tunes barely including any from his foray into Christendom … and him insisting we start off with ;
” It Aint Me , Babe ”
“Go ‘way from my window
Leave at your own chosen speed
I’m not the one you want, babe
I’m not the one you need
You say you’re lookin’ for someone
Who’s never weak but always strong
To protect you an’ defend you
Whether you are right or wrong
Someone to open each and every door
But it ain’t me, babe
No, no, no, it ain’t me, babe
It ain’t me you’re lookin’ for, babe.
Go lightly from the ledge, babe
Go lightly on the ground
I’m not the one you want, babe
I will only let you down
You say you’re lookin’ for someone
Who will promise never to part
Someone to close his eyes for you
Someone to close his heart
Someone who will die for you an’ more
But it ain’t me, babe
No, no, no, it ain’t me babe
It ain’t me you’re lookin’ for, babe.
Go melt back in the night
Everything inside is made of stone
There’s nothing in here moving
An’ anyway I’m not alone
You say you’re looking for someone
Who’ll pick you up each time you fall
To gather flowers constantly
An’ to come each time you call
A lover for your life an’ nothing more
But it ain’t me, babe
No, no, no, it ain’t me, babe
It ain’t me you’re lookin’ for, babe ”
Suffice it to say … the evangelicals thought they were using Dylan … whereas in the end it was Dylan who played them for the fools they were already well on their way to becoming
To which he followed up on his next album ” Infidels ” with …
” Jokerman ”
” Standing on the water, casting your bread
While the eyes of the idol with the iron head are glowing
Distant ships sailing into the mist
You were born with a snake in both of your fists while a hurricane was blowing
Freedom just around the corner for you
But with truth so far off, what good will it do.
Jokerman dance to the nightingale tune
Bird fly high by the light of the moon
Oh, oh, oh, Jokerman.
So swiftly the sun sets in the sky
You rise up and say goodbye to no one
Fools rush in where angels fear to tread
Both of their futures, so full of dread, you don’t show one
Shedding off one more layer of skin
Keeping one step ahead of the persecutor within.
Jokerman dance to the nightingale tune
Bird fly high by the light of the moon
Oh, oh, oh, Jokerman.
You’re a man of the mountains, you can walk on the clouds
Manipulator of crowds, you’re a dream twister
You’re going to Sodom and Gomorrah
But what do you care ? Ain’t nobody there would want marry your sister
Friend to the martyr, a friend to the woman of shame
You look into the fiery furnace, see the rich man without any name.
Jokerman dance to the nightingale tune
Bird fly high by the light of the moon
Oh, oh, oh, Jokerman.
Well, the Book of Leviticus and Deuteronomy
The law of the jungle and the sea are your only teachers
In the smoke of the twilight on a milk-white steed
Michelangelo indeed could’ve carved out your features
Resting in the fields, far from the turbulent space
Half asleep near the stars with a small dog licking your face.
Jokerman dance to the nightingale tune
Bird fly high by the light of the moon
Oh, oh, oh, Jokerman.
Well, the rifleman’s stalking the sick and the lame
Preacherman seeks the same, who’ll get there first is uncertain
Nightsticks and water cannons, tear gas, padlocks
Molotov cocktails and rocks behind every curtain
False-hearted judges dying in the webs that they spin
Only a matter of time ’til the night comes stepping in.
Jokerman dance to the nightingale tune
Bird fly high by the light of the moon
Oh, oh, oh, Jokerman.
It’s a shadowy world, skies are slippery gray
A woman just gave birth to a prince today and dressed him in scarlet
He’ll put the priest in his pocket, put the blade to the heat
Take the motherless children off the street
And place them at the feet of a harlot
Oh, Jokerman, you know what he wants
Oh, Jokerman, you don’t show any response.
Jokerman dance to the nightingale tune
Bird fly high by the light of the moon
Oh, oh, oh, Jokerman.”
If the Republicans had nominated someone else, say Ted Cruz, and he had been elected with 80+ support from “evangelical Christians”, I wonder what the response to him and to “evangelicals” would have been from Frank and his followers? I expect it would not have been quite so hysterical, but still very hostile. So it isn’t just Trump that has Schaeffer’s underwear in a wad, its what policies any “conservative” would have pursued.
Ted Cruz is as bad if not worse a neofascist idiot than Trump
Fact is the RNC by its own admission by allowing the likes of Trump to run under its once honorable and patriotic banner … has overall become completely devoid of legitimate candidates .. with the situation getting worse by the minute as the RNC gets on it knees sucking up up to the Bannon & Brietbart NeoFascist Racist Express … losing what few honorable members the part still has
Fact is Bryson .. the RNC sold its soul to the devil when it hijacked McCain’s RNC nomination campaign in favor of GWB forcing McCain to withdraw under threat ( and people think what the DNC did to Bernie was bad ???? )
And then again when the RNC once again hijacked McCain’s presidential campaign … by forcing the idiot Sarah Palin on his ticket ( which was the deciding factor to vote for Obama )…
… and .. its only gotten worse since then .
Dylan shall lead us out
He said follow me
Nine
Correction … Dylan will lead us nowhere . Provide some mighty fine poetry and music as well as some inspiration along the long hard journey of life and the long strange trip that it is ? Damn tootin … but lead us anywhere ? That is a role Dylan soundly and vehemently rejects .
As Sam Shepard once put it ;
” Dylan is an invention of his own mind . The point isn’t to figure him out but to take him in ” ( ” Sam Shepard : A Life ” by John J. Winters )
Fact is Nine … Dylan is a wandering poet /minstrel /pilgrim … who still hasn’t found what he’s looking for . But along the way he’s hit the nail on the head more often than not .
Went to the liberal mega church on Sunday.
Few young folks.
This church just voted to allow women in leadership as 150 family’s walked out on hearing the vote.
I suggest they move to Texas.
Nine
Good for those 150 families! That would be a big church where I live. Maybe they should start a church of their own.
Correction . Trolls do not ‘ live ‘ anywhere Bryson .
They/you exist as a bunch of disjunct and ephemeral digital 0’s and 1’s floating around in a virtual void awaiting their imminent demise into obscurity
Dear Mr. Bryson,
Yes they should as they are divided so they shall be conquered.
With love of course….
This dear Woman did the Sermon and it was excellent…inspired my 20 year old daughter to want to attend this Church.
http://www.elmbrook.org/sermon/exchange-bitterness-for-freedom-brookfield/
Excellent first class speaker!
I suggest a watch as I got a lot out of it….
Nine
There is no such creature as a woman preacher. God reserves preaching and pastoring to men only, according to the Bible.
Oh really Bryson . Gee .. thats an interesting little lie/heresy/fallacy in light of who it was that brought Timothy to the Faith etc
And then there’s the long history in the US of woman pastors ( including Baptist ) as settlers moved west in order to fill the gaps left by the men running off to the gold fields etc … not to mention the woman once again filling the gaps left by the men running off to war .. in every war since the Civil War
Golly Bryson .. you never have read church history … never mind the NT … have you ? But then again … why would a troll read much of anything .. never mind the Bible
There were no women Jewish priests. There were no women Christian pastors in the NT. Draw your own conclusions.
Once again … who led Timothy to the Faith … and to whom’s hands did Paul trust for Timothys ongoing education when he was away ?
Ahhh the stupid vapidity and inanity of the online troll
PS; Trolls such as yourself are incapable of drawing any conclusions … therefor yours are invalid
Sigh … unfortunately a fine speaker does not a fine pastor make ( And she aint ) In fact .. most times its just the opposite .
A prime example ? Paul ! Ever read the historians at the time’s descriptions of him ? A slightly hunchbacked scrawny little bald man with a high pitched squeaky almost to the point of annoying voice
The sad fact ? The reality is if Paul were to walk into any evangelical / fundamentalist / etc church today … nobody would give him the time of day … never mind let him speak /preach
Why ? Because we are a culture completely addled by celebrity and entertainment … and Paul … was anything but .