Trump’s Alt-“Americans” freely fantasize in print and on YouTube about their desire to execute liberals, “race mixers,” and other “traitors.” There is nothing to negotiate here. What’s needed is a clean sweep destruction of the Trumped GOP in 2018 and 2020. Nothing less will do.
Year One Trump went from bad to worse taking fools still on his side with him. There’s no room to get along when the issues at stake range from child rape to destruction of the planet and a question about if Nazi protesters are good people.
Face it: there’s no middle ground now just right and wrong.
Sophia A. McClennen made the point in a great AlterNet piece that Trump supporters are not good or misunderstood people. They put up with what Trump condones like people chanting ‘Jews will not replace us.’ There is nothing to talk about here just a war to be won at any cost against evil.
After Trump’s election came articles saying we needed to talk to one another “in order to heal.” Nonsense! The last thing you want is to heal a wound that covers a cancer. It needs to be excised. We’ll heal only after civilized America destroys malignant racist Trumpism.
There aren’t Breitbart and Fox News articles about Trump voters/Nazis/KKK’s “need to talk to liberals to heal.” The fascist right knows we’re in a fight to the death. What sane Americans better learn is that what we need to heal from Trump’s GOP is unconditional surrender in 2018 and 2020.
As Sophia A. McClennen writes: “The biggest problems the left [has] today is that we spend more time trying to understand a racist, sexist, xenophobic bigot and the people who like him than we spend actually fighting for progressive politics.” Just so!
In 1939 in Nazi Germany what would you have been “discussing” with the SS? Anyone who still supports Trump isn’t in the same moral universe. And any time you spend trying to connect with that person is only going to waste your time.
If you want to debate the merits of a tax cut for corporations fine.But if you want to debate if Roy Moore is good person you’re in La La Land. There’s no middle ground between fascist (or evangelical fantasy) and reality. Today the goal of rational Americans must be the total destruction of Trump and everything he stands for.
Productive political debate requires a shared reality.
Trump supporters don’t live on the same conceptual planet rational Americans do.
The only debate worth having is with sane Earth-dwellers on how to destroy Trumpism- forever and what you can personally do to achieve this.
The Terminally Trumped are so totally divorced from reality that having prolonged conversations with them — where one attempts to “see their point of view” – will simply damage your own brain in the way that looking through reverse-image glasses eventually damages eyesight and everything looks upside-down.
Trump is a serial liar. Those who support Trump spout his lies. Don’t engage lies. Rather work for the absolute defeat of the Father of Lies.
Trump’s supporters evolved from mistaken Republicans, to enablers of abuse, to outright fascist collaborators with corporate America subjugating women, the poor and the middle class. Today Trump’s supporters are knowingly enablers of abusive evil. There is now no excuse.
There are only three kinds of Americans now- 1) Trumped fascist abusers of women and democracy, 2) Fools waiting for someone else to “fix things” and 3) The implacable patriotic moral resistance demanding total surrender from Trump’s goons in 2018-2020.
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I used to never discuss my political affiliations with anyone since I live in the deep South-the heart of Trump country. I admitted to a so-called friend the other day that I was a democrat and got called a nasty liberal and worse names-some I’ve never even heard of. I did not raise my voice nor did I argue back but her abuse had gotten so bad I just had to hang up. No chance of a rational conversation there. Bye-bye to that friendship!
The only people who voted for Trump that I would consider somewhat decent people now regret it and are embarrassed-like my parents. I tried to warn them. Now they begrudgingly admit I was right. They know they voted for an idiot.
My sentiments exactly . Those who voted for Trump out of blind loyalty to the party as well as those taken in by all the propaganda now regret their decision and are making no bones about it .
And that … I can respect … we’re all human .. and any one of us can be fooled … but it takes genuine humanity and humility to admit you’ve been fooled .. rather than excusing your mistake or worse … justifying it ( PDVD post decision validation syndrome )
“Productive political debate requires a shared reality.”
How about the wars Frank?
The Dems will not stop them anymore than the Rethugs…
tied to the hip and the anti-war movement long dead.
I say all Abrahamic Religion is the cause of all war and so why do the Jews get their racist apartheid state Frank? Well, there is the rub its called reality.
Now, the war has come home with our men taking their own lives at over 22 a day and so that is a tremendous homeland attack if ever I saw one. Not only do we not care for our vets we watch as they kill themselves in droves.
They Just found my pal in a pond dead a victim of our serial deployments in these useless wars Frank. He went missing for over 18 days and even the police hardly looked for him. His demise started after his last deployment ended to Afghanistan.
Well, at least you are attempting to rally the men however, the enemy I see wears a cloak of decency as Dylan so aptly said…
So sorry about your friend. I work around a lot of military people and the PTSD can be really bad. I don’t think it’s something non-military civilians will ever fully comprehend.
My condolences as well Nine . Amazing aint it how the so called christian right rails left and right over abortion ,, while ignoring the genocides , wars and collateral damage ( their words not mine ) suicides brought about by endless meaningless wars since Korea that serve no purpose other than lining the back pockets of the politicians and arms industry that they support .
Worse yet is the fact that the so called evangelical right has more often than not helped finance those wars and genocides we so conveniently call .. police actions
Keep strong my friend . And hold true as I have more often than I’d care to admit to … to the TV character ” House’s ” words
” Life sucks … but it beats the ___ out of the alternative “
Nine is right about our vets killing themselves in droves… And while both the Democrats and the Republicans have blood on their hands in that regard; Drumph and his obsession with taking us all to war is a new kind of evil this country has yet to see. Not only that but his intended cuts to all forms of healthcare will exacerbate the poor mental health our veterans are currently receiving.
As for your friend… I can’t beguing to express how sorry I am that he had to end his life. Not only because people don’t give a sh*t about P.T.S.D. but also because very few understand the impact of moral injury. Which and on that note, here are a couple of artiicles that will shed much needed light on the topic.
I have a little extra time lately, so I’m attempting to contribute something to this conversation. Frank, you have said previously, that you thought you might be able to help explain the concerns of Evangelicals — to the Clinton campaign that managed to call some citizens a “basket of deplorables” And even Obama’s “guns and religion” statement created alienation that was unneeded. We’re not talking about “blame on both sides” — the fact that Trump equivocates about a torch march to a burning cross and Nazi sign says everything about him (and the “Trump Wispherer” you know of whom I speak…). I also don’t want to spend the next ten years fighting an armed resistance if now we can recognize some legitimate points. It seems to me Democratic governance has had to rescue the country several times from Republican carelessness and inability to govern. California is getting by, but maybe we should put billions into the current rail system before we try for a bullet train, or create an economy that doesn’t require millions of unauthorized workers . There seem to be so few good, er, lucid, clear, forceful but not arrogant, rational but not un-emotional speeches that explain what we are for not simply what we are against. There’s nothing easier than poking fun at Trump, I’ve been doing it for a couple years. He lives for it, and his supporters live for him, because the alternatives for leadership don’t resonate. (On a local level, yes, on a national level…)
If I may .. ultimately above and beyond any and all mistakes the DNC may of made .. more significant than any verbal gaff Hillary may of uttered .. and well beyond any perception that the DNC cares less about the common man than the GOP does ( when in fact just the opposite is true ) and more important than an extremely vocal Evangelical minority’s concerns
The real problem was all the self righteous fools and pseudo intellectuals that voted for anyone else other than Hillary .. or worse yet … did not vote at all
Remembering … Trump won the electoral college vote by …. a mere 70,000 votes .
70,000… think about that for a moment .
First, I would like to know what standard of morality Schaeffer is using to make the judgment that Trump and his supporters are “evil”. Frank does not believe in the God of the Bible, so he cannot use the Biblical God as the moral standard. Something that does not exist can’t be a standard of anything. That means Schaeffer us using another moral standard. So, what is the standard? How does Frank know the standard he is using is real? And how does he know that his chosen standard has the authority to make the rules for people?
1) You are not a Christian , Fact is you’re not a good facsimile of a ( small case ‘ c ‘ ) christian or even an evangelibot …. never mind a Biblical Christian what with your constant regurgitations of what ever provocative rhetoric you can find in order to get a rise out of people in your desperate quest for attention .
2) Fact is Bryson . You know nothing about the Bible . You believe nothing that it says . You know even less about the church and its history . Morality ? Morality isn’t even within your scope of vision never mind an integral part of your zeitgeist , actions , decisions and being never mind compassion etc for your fellow man/woman
So just where in the ____ do you get off criticizing Frank or anyone else for that matter ?
3) If you’d bother to learn your history … you’d know that the majority of the creators and signers of the Declaration of Independence as well as the Constitution and Bill of Rights were anything but Christians … Biblical or otherwise * … yet somehow they managed to come up with a set of moral foundations that up until Trump and the Alt Right have served us well over the ages .
* the overwhelming majority were either humanists ( e.g. Jefferson Franklin etc ) or Deists ( Washington Adams etc )
4) When it comes to Trump & Co being either evil or immoral … if you have to ask … you just don’t get it … and … you’ve proven my every conclusion and assessment of you to be correct …. point blank . But for your education and edification … Narcism , Greed , Racism , Pathological Lying , Adultery , Bigotry , Xenophobia , Hatred , Misogyny , Grifterism , Despising the Poor , Not paying one’s debts and bills etc … are not the traits of so much as a moral man … never mind a Biblical Christian .
We can all agree upon the ten commandments which resonate in all religions of the world so if one was to study other religions or perhaps travel to other countries one would see that humanity is more alike than different.
The problem that evangelibots have is their physical and more importantly their intellectual isolationism. All fundamentalism of any religion is a problem as they drive the narrative always to the right and to the concentration of power to the rich and to make the poor poorer.
One example, the irrational hatred of unions of the evangelibots which really goes against their economic interests and how they align themselves with the billionaire class however, one must admire how they constantly do this to the people! And it seems the more fundamental the religion the more they side with the billionaire class.
The proper question is who is funding all of this?
The ten commandments can only be valid moral rules if the God of the Bible gave them. If God didn’t give them, then they were written by some human and are not binding on anyone. And, the first four commandments deal directly with the relationship of people to the God of the Bible. People who adhere to other religions ignore those four commandments. So, your claim that people of all religions use the ten commandments is not true.
What I want to know is, since Schaeffer detests the God of the Bible, and won’t follow His rules, what moral rules is Schaeffer using to make his arguments, and why are those rules valid?
Common Morality like Common Grace are a Biblical reality regardless of the fact that you know nothing of either .
Martin, But Frank rejects the Bible. So, what is he trying to replace it with?
You just do not get it at all .. do you . Then again … that is not your purpose for being here .. is it !
That neither Frank, nor his cohorts want to answer my question is both interesting and revealing.
” That neither Frank, nor his cohorts want to answer my question is both interesting and revealing ”
Actually what is the most revealing is that you’d ask such questions when in fact the answers had already been provided for one and all to see [ my 3:01 pm reply along with # 3 in my 2:58 pm comment ] Revealing even more about who and what you are as well as your overall character and what your sole purpose and agenda for being here really is
Martin, Humans lack the authority to make moral rules. Any human invented “morality” is nothing more than someone’s opinion and is binding on no one. That is why Frank’s claim that certain people he does not like are “evil” is nothing more than Frank’s opinion. Frank’s enemies would only be evil if they violated God’s rules, not Frank’s.
” Martin, Humans lack the authority to make moral rules. Any human invented “morality” is nothing more than someone’s opinion and is binding on no one ”
Which once again displays your abject lack of knowledge , comprehension and understanding when it comes to all things Biblical ..not to mention your failing to read either of the two comments I referenced
Suffice it to say General Revelation … or in the more common vernacular .. common grace … is both Biblical and real .. and does carry with it God’s absolute authority . What it does not contain is Salvific knowledge
PS; From this point on you will either address me as Mr Martin or Doctor Martin if you wish to receive a reply seeing as how you have not earned the right to address me in the familiar due in no small part to your lack of maturity and utter lack of respect for anyone .
Martin, To deny the existence, or the authority, of the God of the Bible makes it illegitimate, and hypocritical, to then claim that the rules the God of the Bible made apply. That means Frank is calling people evil and immoral without grounds to do so. He is voicing his opinion which is not based on any reality. In order for anyone to claim that someone is evil, he or she would have to furnish Biblical proof that the person in question has violated the laws of the Biblical God. Frank cannot do that because he does not believe the God of the Bible has moral authority.
To reiterate ;
From this point on you will either address me as Mr Martin or Doctor Martin if you wish to receive a reply
Jesus said this…
You must love one another
It was not a request but a command….
jt, I’m not going to do that. You never have anything important to say anyway.
Of course I certainly will bow as you wield the scriptures so very well.
Are you Jesuit educated? I find them the most informed.
I will quote Dr. Mel Lawrenz:
“Before one can lead one must follow”
I believe our dear Mr. Bryson has tremendous talent.
I found talent for my former employer….
I wish to employ my talents for his kingdom now a much better employer….
Poetry for me is plausible deniability
” just witnessed the finest old school evangelical funeral
uncle johnny did the eulogy
was the finest ever seen
even the great great grand children spoke up
finest woman any could see
to be free live like her
only ‘vangelical church I could attend
his fire and brimstone was weak
he would say well done
I told uncle john well done
his always reply
in service to his spirit
his kingdom came in that service”
Can’t always be bashing my people even though they deserve it.
Got had just like Frank’s Dad….
” We guard our world with locks and guns
And we guard our fine possessions
And once a year when Christmas comes
We give to our relations
And perhaps we give a little to the poor
If the generosity should seize us
But if any one of us should interfere
In the business of why they are poor
They get the same as the rebel … Jesus ”
That poem took me days to process…
Nine good sir … you and everyone else ( other than Bryson and gdd ) are most welcome to address me in the familiar … e.g .. a simple reply … TJ .. Martin .. or in a moment of jocularity should the mood strike you .. Doc Martin ( BBC sitcom )
And yes that Jackson Browne lyric is rather damning .. and all too accurate .. is it not ! I recently ran across it again while reading Bruce Cockburn’s autobiography ,
Dylan , Browne , Young , Mitchell , Cockburn etc .. damn if my ( our ? ) generation didn’t put out a whole host of poets extraordinaire
You’re correct Frank. There’s no logical thinking behind a T-supporters ability to converse on political matters. Just look at their congressional decisions or their talking points in ordinary every day chats. They’ve been fed erroneous data by their religious leaders to the point of brainwashed. Maybe they think themselves into the “billionaire-class.” And with nothing of productive value to show for it. Each individual has to get informed from credible sources in order to decide on religious & political topics. Thank you for your service to this all-important endeavor. I support you.
Well … it may not help … but here’s a little fact to stuff into the faces of those Drumpf sycophants . re; The proposed tax code ;
For those ( such as myself ) making $101k and above .. taxes will decrease . With them decreasing exponentially the more money one makes ( a person making $20 million will see an overall increase of 2,372% in their annual income after taxes )
All those between $100,001 and $100,999 .. taxes will remain the same
While those making $100k or less taxes will increase … substantially
I can cut back more
can ride my bicycle to the grocery store and get rid of that car
I live in a rural area with a lot of new city folk moving in
Should I move?
They are all republicans of course
Me on pension and social security
I could sell that house for a fine profit to a fine young and coming republican family…he he..
How can one county be 99 percent republican?
Well mine is…
Ah… Yes! Once again Gary Bryson had to put his two cents of sh*t!!! And yet, after engaging Nine is so many threads… Not a single word of comfort nor any kind of condolences for the tragic death of Nine’s friend. That should you tell you all something about what an arrogant, uncaring, and unempathetic piece of human waste he is! With nothing better to do with his time than to regurgitate his hatred towards all who may challenge his god of the “King James version of the F*ING bible.” Never mind that the King James version of the bible, was commissioned for the sole purpose of squashing the Nonconformists and Separatists, (some of whom would later become America’s Pilgrims), who wanted the state out of church affairs altogether. As such, it called for a product commissioned to reinforce a clear-cut royal political agenda, to be done by elite scholarly committees, reviewed by a self-serving bureaucracy, with ultimate approval reserved to an absolutist monarch. Or… The historical fact that King James the 1st was a known homosexual who murdered his young lovers and victimized countless heretics and women. His cruelty was justified by his “divine right” of kings.
Margarite, The King James Version was a translation of the Bible, not a rewriting of it.
Once again Bryson you exhibit your utter and absolute abject lack of knowledge when it comes to all things Biblical ( or Bible )
The King Jame Bible translation was steeped in error both due to the lack of knowledge of the Koine Greek and Aramaic of the NT at the time … along with the then monarchy’s agenda to keep the minions in line forcing the translators to intentionally mistranslate specific passages in the NT in order to reinforce a professional class of clergy as well as a church allegiance to the monarchy .
Which s is to say … the King James is both a translation .. albeit a poorly done one .. and a rewrite of the original NT text as well .
All issues that the NASB , NIV , the New King James etc have gone out of their way over the least five decades to rectify .
Begging the question . Why is it that you … a self proclaimed Bible expert do not know this when even Wikipedia does ?
jt, We are all free to read the Bible of our choice.
massive dissrespect Mr. bryson…
Just in case reading is within your limited capabilities ;
Which is to say Bryson .. once again … you’re wrong … as always
Bryson … comment by comment … reply after reply … you make it obvious with each and every word , multiple repetitions , inane replies and a distinct inability to respond in a reasonable and intelligent manner not to mention displaying all the maturity of a 10-15 year old ( of questionable gender ) exactly who and what you are ;
An internet Troll ..
Nothing more . Nothing less
Using and usurping words and ideologies you have no comprehension of solely for the purpose of provoking responses in order to draw attention to yourself in the vain and futile attempt to give purpose and meaning to your otherwise meaningless and vapid little existence
His courtiers called him queen Mary.. he he….
Just Like America’s first FBI Chief J. Edgar (Mary) Hover…
Lovingly referred to as J. Edgar Mary…..
And so what of LGBT? When out no one can blackmail you.
Please think about that and how the world really works….
Ms Abadie … Ahhh …. but if you think ole King James I was a bad apple … you should take a long look at Cromwell and his minions/roundheads from whence the Puritans/Pilgrims came . Suffice it to say they were the Taliban / ISIS of their age … and after Cromwells agenda was quashed … the sole reason for the Puritans leaving England for the new world was because they were given the choice of death .. or leaving ( to help England establish a financial base in the north ) for their previous misdeeds and crimes against the state and humanity ( that is how the decree was worded ) … not because they were seeking religious freedom . …. after I might add .. everyone else on the continent had booted them out .
Sigh .. another one bites the dust … . so much for the myth of the Pilgrims .
Next up ? Christmas and its deep pagan roots , symbolism and iconography
Ah… Yes! The Puritan/Pilgrims, another group of radicalized religious zealots whose descendants erroneously call “settlers” when in fact they were nothing more than an invading/murdering lot who killed off whatever native survived the ravishes of the smallpox epidemic. Little wonder that ole King James the 1st a confirmed homosexual was concerned about them, and had his paid scholars re-write the bible to put the fear of god into every living soul on the British Isles.
As for Saturnalia (Christmas) … The ancient Greek writer poet and historian Lucian (in his dialogue entitled Saturnalia) describes the festival’s observance in his time. In addition to human sacrifice, he mentions these customs: widespread intoxication; going from house to house while singing naked; rape and other sexual license; and consuming human-shaped biscuits still produced in some English and most German bakeries during the Christmas season. It’s truly surprising that we still celebrate it within a Christian context, and think of gingerbread cookies as something cute. Particularly given that in England under Oliver Cromwell, Christmas and other saints’ days were banned, and in New England, it was illegal to celebrate Christmas for about 25 years in the 1600’s.
In all honesty, it just boggles my mind how these so-called Christian appropriate everything from the land that belonged to the native American people, to even the Winter Solstice celebration (Yule) and re-brand it as celebrating the birth of Christ, X-mas tree, sprig of holly, mistletoe, and all. And then get ultra-offended when others call said festivities “The Holidays.”
Ms Abadie ; Once one is willing to ignore ( or rewrite ) Scripture one finds ones self capable of a whole multitude of evils and sins all done in the name of the God they claim to worship while justifying their every action with their gross misinterpretations , hypocrisies and lies
But lest ye lose all hope . Read the recently rediscovered journals of Plymouth settlement Puritan William Bradford . Especially the entries of his final few years where he comes to the painful realization of all the blatant hypocrisies and damage done by the settlement .. in the pretense of being in the name of God … but ultimately in pursuit of the almighty profit .. and that in the end all was in vain .
The fact is … Bradford’s final entries set me to tears … because I hold a person in high esteem willing to so adamantly admit to his or her mistakes
Ahhh .. heck Ms Abadie . Ya took all the wind and the fun out of the comment I was planning to post in the near future … sigh ( humor most definitely intended )
Martin is not a Dr. I can assure you of that.
PS; I was referring to Cromwell and his roundheads when making the comparison to ISIS etc
They ( Cromwell & Co ) … made the Pilgrims and James the 1st combined look like venerated saints in comparison
This article and video from Schaeffer proves that he is full of hatred and intolerance for those he thinks are his enemies. He is guilty of the same things he accuses his enemies of.
As I stated earlier .. you are no Christian nor are you even so much as a moral individual .
What you are is an internet Troll … plain and simple . Which is to say … your scripted opinions are of no consequence or meaning what so ever
martin, Opinions vary. But yours are consistently irrelevant.
To answer your question, Gary Bryson… And to get back on topic… One does not need to believe in your F*CKING bible to know that torture is evil! Which means, that anyone who supports a genital grabbing, xenophobic, homophobic, misogynistic, racist, violence instigating narcissistic megalomaniacal war-mongering torture advocating despotic liar; who has boasted that he will pay the legal fees of those who commit violence on his behalf and that we should kill Muslims and their families with bullets dipped in pigs blood … going as far as to criticize John McCain for being tortured, claiming that he only likes “winners” who don’t get captured, and even insulting a Gold Star parent… Is by default and every definition of the word, an EVIL waste of human flesh! So please stop using the bible to cop out from taking responsibility for whom you voted for!!!
Margarite, Prove that any of the things you mentioned are evil, or immoral. Go ahead. Then after you have failed, I will tell you why you failed. Well?
Gary… I get that you don’t like Hispanics. But you have no right to be Anglicising my name in the same manner that King James the 1st did with the bible to suit his own agenda. But since you asked. Sexual predation is both immoral and evil, as is racism. Wanting to murder Muslims and their families, for no other reason than because some of them may be radicalized is even more immoral and evil. And torture is beyond immoral and evil, as is anyone who advocates for torture. And if you don’t think that torture is evil… Then perhaps you should endure it yourself… Believe me! You WILL change your mind faster than you could ever imagine! And go ahead! Tell me how I’ve failed. I can’t wait for you to show your basal immorality an innately cruel and sadistic nature!
Margarita, I asked you to PROVE any of those things are immoral. Your claiming they are immoral is NOT proof. Now, can you prove what you claim?
What is proof?
Our five senses?
Science says that there are worlds so vast beyond our five senses
he said this
I am the way and the truth and the life follow me
our government outlawed knowledge its called national security
his classification is cosmic way above national security
said would send my spirit till I returned
Oh! I forgot that in your bible, which is nothing more than book (with no scientific backing) of King Jame’s compiled machinations designed to put the fear of god into all those who would oppose him … god condones torture. So while according to you homosexuality is the most immoral thing on earth and the evil of all evils… There is no proof that raping and/or torturing others (both men and women) is immoral/evil. As long as it is done for the sole purpose of tormenting them, that is.
Margarita, Can’t prove what you claim is immoral really is immoral, can you? I knew you couldn’t. Your “morality” is just something YOU made up. It isn’t real. It has no authority over anyone, including yourself.
So where’s your proof Bryson ?
So far all I’m seeing is another round of your endlessly repetitious fertilizer with nary a modicum of proof … Biblical or otherwise to be found . Why is that ? The script letting you down … again ?
So the only logical and intelligent conclusion one can come to is that ;
1) You are nothing more than an internet troll
2) Ms Abadie is once again right .
.. while you ..
3) As always … are dead wrong ..
But then again … such is the inane and vapid existence of the Internet Troll .
FYI ; As for the proof that you are neither a moral individual nor do you so much as resemble a Christian / christian … Biblical or otherwise can once again be found in your own self condemning words Bryson .
Sorry, Gary… But the same could be said about you! Particularly given that there is absolutely no way of proving that any version of bible was indeed “inspired” by “divine revelation.” And as such, you can’t prove anything yourself either. Which means that what you believe in has no authority over anyone, including yourself. But whatever, if you think that torture is not wrong and immoral, then, by all means, do please go get yourself tortured. Trust me! I won’t be stopping you. If anything it will give you a parameter by which to understand the meaning of “Do not to do unto others that which you don’t want to be done to yourself.”
… and once again t Ms Abadie is correct . Even among the most stalwart of Biblical scholars and Evangelical Fundamentalist pastors and elders there is no agreement as to which translation or iteration of the Bible can be truly considered .. inspired … never mind completely accurate
But the one thing they all do agree on is … that the KJB is among the most inaccurate of all the translations currently available
And the fact is Bryson … no church of any denomination or ilk uses the KJB anymore .. because it is so riddled with errors , mistranslations and intentional rewrites . No one !
Oh … and by the way Bryson .. every serious Christian , Pastor and Biblical scholar uses at least three if not more of the available translations before coming to any conclusions as to what any given passage may or not mean .
Why ? Because one .. say the NIV .. has the most accurate translations of the Koine Greek used in the majority of the NT … while another .. say the NASB … does a better job with the Aramaic of Matthew … while yet another translates the ancient Hebrew of the OT better .
Margarita, Only God has the authority to define morality. And He has, as recorded in the Bible. But you don’t believe anything written in the Bible, by your own admission. Since you don’t believe the God of the Bible is real, including Jesus Christ, if you attempt to use any of God’s moral rules as your own, you are guilty of theft and hypocrisy. You can’t agree with anything written in the Bible without being a thief and a hypocrite.
Margarita, Another thing. If the God of the Bible is not real, then there is no such thing as morality. If morality is just a human invention, which it is, if God is not real, then it is nothing more than someone’s opinion, which no one is obligated to follow. So, you can complain all you want about the immorality of others, but you have no credibility.
By the way Bryson … when .. or where has Ms Abadie ever claimed that she does not believe the one true God of the Bible to be real ?
Answer ; Other than within the depths of your own delusional mind … never
As for ;
” You can’t agree with anything written in the Bible without being a thief and a hypocrite ”
Once again little one you are wrong .
A non-believer holding true to any or all aspects of the Bible is the very essence of the Doctrine of Common Grace / General Revelation as outlined in both the NT and the OT
And ahhh … here’s the really bad news as it relates to you . A non believer according to Scripture has the absolute right to hold you accountable to all judgements and issues of morality found within the Bible .
Bryson …. once again … read your Bible rather than regurgitating todays Internet Troll script .
At the point where Theocracy came to an end ( when Israel demanded a human king ) God gave the authority to establish and define morality and the law to the civil authorities to both the general population as well as believers thru His Common Grace given to all His creation … believers or not . Whereas believers are held to a higher and Biblical standard albeit one they may not impose on others
As shown in both the NT as well as the OT . And especially in the NT of the KJB you claim to hold true to .
So whats up Bryson ? Shoving your foot down your throat with your own words once again ?
Damn that script of yours is in dire need of revision
Where in the Bible does it say that God gave the right to define morality to the civil authorities?
“Margarita, Another thing. If the God of the Bible is not real, then there is no such thing as morality.”
This statement is nothing about religious conjecture that is often as as a fact by religious folks. And on what evidence did Gary used arrive at this “fact”? Hint. The Bible is not evidence.
One does not need the so-called morality of a god especially the imaginary god depicted in the Bible god to have moral standards. Human societies throughout history have created societal norms and as these human societies have evolved, they have moved against from cruel (usually religious) laws to a more just (not perfect) society. Bible god is NOT the standard of modern morality.
“Where in the Bible does it say that God gave the right to define morality to the civil authorities?”
Who cares what the Bible says about anything. It is unimportant anyway. Woo Hoo!
Save your resolve and strength for the real “battle” that we are engaged in. Don’t expend all the energy arguing with people who want you to. Just like their mentor, Humpty D. Trumpty and staff aka Kelly Android CONway and Zombie Huckabee Sanders. This gang of cult followers are pathological liars who use all forms of deceptions possible, including the evil “gas lighting”, which is the narcissist favorite form of confusion. Stay focused on Frank’s call to arms (figuratively) and don’t “bite” into their arguments. They want you to and you are never going to convert one of them. Let’s simplify here. Most folks “know” the difference between right and wrong. The boundaries are set by family, society, the bible, most religions and least not forget our own moral compasses. I personally love what Jesus taught, it works for me. Empathy, love each other, treat others the way in which you want to be treated. How you, or anyone else acquired their compass I don’t care…. just as long as you have one and are trying. Ethics are universal, we need them to be. Let anyone try and change this by deception, with evil intent? All gloves come off take no prisoners. This is a adversary that we haven’t seen in our country I believe. Fight accordingly. Peace and goodwill… we need to fight for when threatened.
Here is where I stand.
I wish to live in peace
Our thanksgiving discussion went over to Alabama’s Roy Moore
is he guilty or innocent of the charges
merely brought by a woman
I asked my lovely diner and wine companion
would you believe her if she were your daughter
we moved on to laugh the nite away
just love my family so
I was just reminded of this passage in my todays Bible reading ;
Psalm 37 : 1 , 2
” Do not fret because of evil men or be envious of those who do wrong for like the grass they will soon wither .. like green plants they will soon die away “
Why do you read the Bible when you don’t believe it?
One last reply until you learn to address me with the respect I deserve from the likes of you .. e.g. Mr Martin or Dr Martin
When ..or where .. have I ever stated that I do not believe in the Bible .. the one true God of the Bible .. or the Words ( when accurately translated ) therein ?
Answer ; Once again … never .. other than within the depths of your demented little mind
Martin, Every post you make proves you do not believe the Bible.
And, you have proven you will reply to me no matter what I call you, or don’t call you.
…. and heck Bryson .. its not like you do . Believe in or even so much as ever read a Bible that is .. as proven by your each and every comment / reply
Begging the question … why do you continually claim to be a Christian who believes in the Bible when you are and do not ?
Answer ; Because you are an internet troll desperately seeking attention on one of the few sites that so far has neglected to ban you
Martin, Do you believe God made everything in six days?
” Martin, Do you believe God made everything in six days? ”
OK . Lets play rough going way above your head and abilities shall we seeing as you are incapable of respect… along with any semblance of moral , ethical or Biblical behavior . Not for your sake mind you . but rather for the sake and benefit of others
Six literal days ? Ahhh …. bad news little one but the correct translation of the word ‘day’ from the original Biblical ancient Hebrew to the English is ….’ Age’ .. not ‘ day ‘
And seeing as how Scripture is quite clear that to God a minute may be a day and an age may be eternity and that our concept of time is not that of the Eternal God …. ‘ Age’ does not translate to the human concept of … a 24 hour day
So six definite divisions of time within the Infinite Mind of God the Creator beyond our comprehension or ability to understand due to the limited nature of our finite and sinful being ? ……… Yes
But six literal 24 hour human derived days as is mistranslated by those too illiterate or lazy to go back to the original text .. or at least the resources available ?
Back to the translation problem though . Did Christ not say that he He would return before all the Apostles had died ? Why yes … according to many of the poorly translated texts including your KJB … He did .
Which means Bryson .. either
A ) You wrap your little head around the fact that mistranslation and error are part and parcel of all the translations ( and especially the KJB ) beyond the original texts ..
… or …
B) You will be forced to admit that Christ lied . Cause little one … all the Apostles are dead and gone yet Christ had yet to return .
Now honestly Bryson .. assuming someone like you is capable of a moment of honesty … which option would you chose ?
Suffice it to say .. wisdom dictates … option A
And for the record Bryson . The 24 hour literal day as we know it is a human creation not a Biblical one . Created by the polytheistic pagan Greek Philosopher … Hipparchus .. which he derived from the polytheistic pagan culture of Ancient Egypt
martin, Does that mean you are an evolutionist?
TJ Martin… I must commend your brilliant answer to Bryson’s question:
” Martin, Do you believe God made everything in six days? ”
Clearly, you are a dedicated scholar who knows what you are talking about. Just one thing if I may… I have long ago after stying the binary mathematical system within the context of the apparent duality of the Universe, and realizing that there was an inherent error in it, have come to understand that there really is no original “sin” per say (a misinterpreted word in MHO), and instead, there is an original “error.” Hence, as far as my personal comprehension relative to the Creation story is that there were six definite divisions of time within the Infinite Mind of God the Creator beyond our comprehension or ability to understand due to the limited nature of our finite and erroneous being. Which to me is indeed plausible, but as of yet unproven…
Because Gary… TJ Martin is free to read whatever he wants, much in the same way that I am free to read whatever I chose, as for example Drumphs latest tweets spreading Islamophobic lies designed to stir up fear and resentment towards Muslims in an effort to deflect from his tax cuts bill that would give more money to Corporate Amerika and the ultra-rich, while harming everyone else… without necessarily believing a word he says!
Margarita, Yes, you are free to read what you want. What you are not free to do is define right and wrong. That right is reserved to Almighty God.
Wrong again Gary Bryson! According to my understanding of God’s common grace, is that by virtue of having a conscience (yet I do have one) I have a conscious sense of what constitutes basic right and wrong behavior. As such, I can ascertain that torture is indeed wrong!!!
Margarita, Without God making moral rules, your conscience would have no objective basis for guiding you. In other words, your conscience is not your guide, God’s law is. If you break God’s law you are guilty, even if your conscience does not confirm your guilt.
So being that in the KJV of the bible god tortures all non-bible believers… I take that to mean that you don’t believe that torturing those of a different faith is wrong. Quite the contrary! Hence your reason for feeling absolutely no empathy whatsoever for those poor unfortunate Muslim babies who are torn from their mother’s arms and thrown alive into a burning fire! Which makes you one very sick, immoral, and depraved sociopath! Little wonder that you voted for Drumph!!!
Ms Abadie – thank you for recognizing the time and effort I’ve put in over the decades in pursuit of the Truth .. regardless of whether I like it or not
As for the concept of original sin . Here’s a thought to consider . Without going into a myriad of detail Einstein and several others have postulated that somewhere within the confines of the universe and science there must be something that unifies all ( Unification Theory ) Yet to date and despite all the research , formulas , theories and science that Unification has been unattainable .
So heres a thought/theory . Assuming that original sin is true … and assuming that Unification Theory at its essence is correct …
Could it be that original sin has thrown the unifying aspects of the universe in disarray in light of the fact that the Bible tells us every aspect of life geology and nature right on down to the blade of grass beneath our feet has been in one way or another corrupted by the effects of original sin ? e.g. Are we at the core of our being responsible for every evil and problem facing us while in these mortal coils of ours ? And therefore is it possible that before original sin that Unification Theory was both intact as well as discoverable having also been corrupted by the effects of original sin ?
Well … as a Reformation theologian ( a CalviLuthern if you need a label ) my answer would be an unequivocal … yes . Where we as humans by the act of origin sin thru Adamn & Eve have made a mess of everything that once was perfect in God’s creation
Now of course we cannot provide the absolute proof for this concept . But then again in light of the theology of Common Grace … knowing that some semblance of God’s Truth exists within all .. does not multiple Myths and Legends back up this concept ..e.g. Pandora’s Box etc ?
And then .. take a look around us . We are the sole species inhabiting this little green planet that are not only capable … but continually do make ” clubs and weapons out of bandaids ” * in order to exert our will towards those around us
* a psychiatry idiom a friend in the flied shared with me … and one that applies to far too many so called Biblical Christians as they turn the Bible into a weapon … rather than an agent for change and peace
Abadie, I don’t torture anyone. God will decide the proper punishment for you. It will be fair and just. But since it is punishment, it will not be fun.
Without any disrespect intended, in order for me to attempt to answer your question within the frame of this thread, we would have to establish the following premises:
1- We are in the neo-infancy of our understanding of the complexities of the Universe. As such, we can safely assume that what we think we know (including Einstein) … is most likely wrong.
2- The concept of “perfection” as we currently understand it is but an illusion. As is our understanding of time, among many other things.
3- Being that we share over 98% of our DNA with chimpanzees (who BTW do use sticks to beat each other up on their marauding excursions) it is hard for me to accept the story of Adam & Eve. Which if true, it would then beg the question of why we share more than 98% of our DNA with chimpanzees.
4- I have long since wondered about the concept of Common Grace, but if I had to venture a guess, I would say that it has more to do with an inherent hardwiring for the purpose of survival.
Notwithstanding the above, given the law of uncertainty and the physics of quantum mechanics, I would again venture to say that all things are possible. So who is to empirically say one way or the other that there isn’t such a thing as the original sin (evil) in some realm/reality? So in that context, it doesn’t hurt to do the Christian things, as in, being kind, compassionate, and loving towards all things…
Gary… Saying that you don’t torture anyone and yet supporting and empowering someone that advocates torture, is like saying that as long as you don’t have to do it yourself, you are perfectly OK with others doing it on your behalf. Which in my book is EVIL.
As for punishment Gary… Being that it is you who can’t denounce those who would torture others, and therefore condone it … it would be you who will be burning in hell. If it really does exists that is.
” Does that mean you are an evolutionist?”
Thats a mighty over generalized verging on stupidly ludicrous (ass)umption ( emphasis on a-s-s ) to be making in light of the fact that no where within my reply did I so much as mention Evolution … never mind make claim to being an evolutionist .
Now evolution within the species ? That little man is undeniable …
But … Evolution as in Darwins principals of Evolution between species ( in other words a monkey evolving into a human ) ? That I do not believe in . Not to mention according to the very principles of the scientific method … being completely unprovable
Apologies for going so far beyond your limited ability and capabilities of comprehension and understanding … but once again this was for the benefit of others .. not you .
” What you are not free to do is define right and wrong. That right is reserved to Almighty God”
Wrong again Bryson . As I’ve stated several times times previously …. and as confirmed thru out the Bible … once Israel had demanded a human king and the age of Theocracy came to an end … God gave the authority to both define what is and is not moral .. as well as to make those morals into law to the civil authorities in charge . And though believers are held to a higher ( Biblical ) standard … they are commanded to honor and obey the laws and morals put into place by … human beings
But the fact is Bryson … you don’t want to hear the truth or the Truth .. and you most definitely do not want the answers to your fraudulent questions .. all you want is to provoke and antagonize like your idol Milo Yiannopoulos in order to try and give meaning to your otherwise meaningless and vapid existence you mistakenly call a life
In other words Bryson … once again you prove yourself to be a troll … nothing more … noting less .. just a digitally addled little troll desperate for attention .
martin, I asked for Biblical proof of your claim above, but you didn’t respond to that. Where in the Bible can I read where God gave the authority to people to define morality?
…. the other obvious fact is Bryson .. you hold to no moral or ethical code what so ever . Never mind the morals and ethics as outlined in Scripture
The sad fact is that within the delusions of grandeur and glory imbedded within the depths of your very depraved and desperate little mind …
You are your own god . And a very tiny inconsequential ” small metal god ” you are
In the spirit of Nine and i exchanging poetry and lyrics ( you do know that the Psalms are first and foremost both poetry and lyrics .. don’t you Bryson ) here’s one that immediately reminded me of you ;
” So, so you think you can tell
Heaven from hell
Blue skies from pain
Can you tell a green field
From a cold steel rail
A smile from a veil
Do you think you can tell
Did they get you to trade
Your heroes for ghosts
Hot ashes for trees
Hot air for a cool breeze
Cold comfort for change
Did you exchange
A walk on part in the war
For a lead role in the cage ”
Gilmour / Waters
Finest poem of the twentieth century TJ!
” I asked for Biblical proof of your claim above, but you didn’t respond to that. Where in the Bible can I read where God gave the authority to people to define morality? ”
So far as I can see you’ve asked for nothing in the way of proof from me . Ms Abadie .. yes .. me ? Just more of your inane questions that in reality you do not want the answers to
But if tis proof you want little one … here’s a thought … rather than wasting my precious time posting passage after passage .. try
READING THE DAMN BIBLE … yourself !
Nahhh .. you just keep regurgitating the script like the good little Milo Yiannopoulos troll that you are .
On the subject of replying … providing proof … or so much as answering simple questions …even for one of your obviously diminished capacities and capabilities
When have you ever replied to a direct question ?
When have you so much as provided a modicum of proof Biblical or otherwise in the defense of your multiple claims ?
When beyond your endlessly repetitive circular logic ( its true because you say its true ) have you ever backed up a single one of your idiotic accusations ?
Hell Bryson … you won’t even respond when asked what religion or church you supposedly subscribe to ( and don’t say christian or biblical christian because here in the good ole US of A that can mean anything from Southern Baptist to LDS and Scientology )
The answer : Never .. so why should we pay you the very courtesy you so arrogantly demand of us when in fact you are not willing to return the favor in kind ?
martin, Yeah, that’s what I thought. There is no Scripture that will prove your claim that God gave the authority to define good and evil to humans. As always, you’re full of BS.
martin, I am a Baptist and I attend a Baptist Church. I am what Schaeffer would call a Christian fundamentalist I believe the Bible says that God created everything in six days, not long periods of time. I believe the Jesus of the NT is the Christ, that he was born of a virgin, lived a sinless life, died on a Roman cross to pay for the sins of those who believe on him, was buried, and rose again the third day. He ascended to Heaven and will soon return for his church. .
NO! Garry… Jesus will not return to his church! After all the blood and gore, murder, torture and other unimaginable atrocities committed in his name during the past 2,000 years, I am sure that he is wise enough to know better than giving the likes of you another reason to continue the bloodshed and slaughter! But you are welcome to continue deluding yourself…
Abadie, Just more proof you don’t believe the Bible. Which is ok with me.
No! Gary… While I can read the bible (not the KJV) within a mythological and/or if you will an allegorical context to serve as a guide for mankind, I believe that mathematics is the language of the Universe and science the path by which to understand it’s secrets.
As such, while I feel for example that the story of Noah’s ark was intended to foster the notion that we are the keepers of all animals on our planet and should thus care about their survival and treat them kindly as opposed to indiscriminately killing them for fun and pleasure (as do Drumph’s sons who love to hunt big game) and/or recklessly pollute their environment… Sheer physics makes for that no ark of the time could have been built to accommodate all living species (including those from as of yet undiscovered continents such as Antartica, Australia, and the Americas) and their feed for a 40-day voyage on the high seas, I do not believe that such an event factually occurred.
Nor do I feel that unless I believe everything that is written in the KJV of the bible to be inerrant and factually true, I am a sinner who is unable to discern the difference between right and wrong, and will burn in hell for all eternity because of my views.
Sorry… but THAT is a crock of sh*t. And you are really wasting your time trying to convince me otherwise. Much in the same way that no one will convince me that a xenophobic, racist, Islamophobic, homophobic, misogynistic, narcissistic, egomaniacal, megalomaniacal sexual predator who openly advocates the use of torture is a good and decent man, worthy of the presidency of the USA.
OK. It does not matter to me what you believe.
” Yeah, that’s what I thought. There is no Scripture that will prove your claim that God gave the authority to define good and evil to humans. As always, you’re full of BS ”
1) Once again your ( ass)umptions are wrong .
2) So you claim to be a Baptist ? Which one in the multiple cauldrons of Baptist soup that exist within these United States do you make claim to ?
But ahhh …. Sorry Bryson .. you picked exactly the wrong denomination to make claim to
Good Lord in Heaven Bryson .. I almost fell off my chair laughing my head off when I read you were making claims to being some kind of Baptist
Why ? Hate to be the bearer of bad news but .. I did my Masters ( Theology w/emphasis in Apologetics ) at a Conservative Baptist seminary and pastored at several Baptist churches across the land fundamentalist included ( from the late 70’s to the mid 2000’s ) … and fundamentalist or not you exhibit no signs what so ever of being a Baptist of any kind
A) Fact . No Baptist church of any kind still uses the KJB . New KJB .. a few still do … but the KJB ? .. relegated to the bookshelves of history where it damn well belongs
B) Fact . No Baptist of any ilk including the most fundamentalist Baptists would tolerate your blatant arrogance lies and hypocrisy … not to mention your abject hatred and utter lack of knowledge when it comes to all things Christian and Bible
C) Fact . No Baptist church ( or parent ) would endorse , condone or accept your behavior here …. nor would they condone you so much as participating on this site .
D) Fact ; The Southern Baptist Convention would condemn your every word and behavior
So it seems my little Milo wanna be troll … that as always .. you chose poorly … and …. the full extent of the BS ’round these here parts .. falls directly upon your lying little head … as always
Martin, I personally know of several Baptist churches that use the KJV exclusively.
I am not currently a member of a Southern Baptist church, though I have been in the past.
I know many Baptists that wouldn’t spit on you if you were on fire. Which you will be someday.
And ahhh .. Bryson … this ;
” I believe the Bible says that God created everything in six days, not long periods of time. I believe the Jesus of the NT is the Christ, that he was born of a virgin, lived a sinless life, died on a Roman cross to pay for the sins of those who believe on him, was buried, and rose again the third day. He ascended to Heaven and will soon return for his church. ”
… is nothing more than a Cut & Paste statement of doctrine that you could of lifted from any reasonably conservative Christian church .. Emerging Church ( remember Brian McLaren ? ) .. Christian Scientist church … etc et al … heck you little fool …. even the most liberal of protestant christian denominations make use of those exact same words . Rendering your words and claims as meaningless as your very existence
” Martin, I personally know of several Baptist churches that use the KJV exclusively ”
You know of no such thing … liar
jt, It’s true, even if you don’t believe it. But, I’m not surprised you don’t believe Baptist churches use the KJV. You are very ignorant on a number of topics. Just add this one to the list.
Unfortunately, the Anchor Baptist Church which has a ministry in Gastonia, NC, close to where Gary lives, does preach the KJV of the bible. Mind you, they are as sick as F*CK, and even post a video of their Fall Festival Games, that involve two blindfolded men that walk barefoot across a path littered with legos, mouse traps, and other sharp-edged objects to reach a table where they have to pick up forks set between more mousetraps and then walk back while they scream in pain to the cheers of giggling children and gun-toting men. Then again, one of the contestants is wearing a MAGA cap. So no surprise there! Don’t believe me? See for yourself!
” I know many Baptists that wouldn’t spit on you if you were on fire. Which you will be someday”
Once again with the lies and false accusations . And once again .. you know no such thing .
Proving point blank you are the furthest thing from a Baptist of any kind imaginable … and proving once again that which we already know
That you are a blatant unrepentant liar … a fraud … and a troll
I know an infidel when I see one. And you’re an infidel.
” It’s true, even if you don’t believe it. But, I’m not surprised you don’t believe Baptist churches use the KJV. You are very ignorant on a number of topics. Just add this one to the list ”
You’re lying Bryson . I know for a fact no Baptist denomination condones the use of the KJB .
But to repeat my question . Exactly what kind of Baptist are you claiming to be ? Specifically .. not one of your over generalized bs answers
martin, I attend an independent Baptist church. The Baptist churches in my area are either Southern Baptists, or Independent Baptists.
…. and by the way my lying little fraud .. the correct abbreviation is …
KJB ( King James Bible )
” I know an infidel when I see one. And you’re an infidel ”
Bryson .. face facts … you don’t know your head from your sphincter
martin, I know how to spot an infidel. That’s how I know you’re one.
” I know how to spot an infidel. That’s how I know you’re one ”
1) I repeat .. you wouldn’t know your head from your sphincter if your life depended on it
2) IFB ehhh ? Nice try Bryson ! Care to say which one seeing as how there is a multitude of IFB’s ranging from ultra liberal to alt conservative ?
And ahhh care to have me share your comments and replies with your pastor ? Cause honestly .. I’d be glad to . Assuming you’re claiming to be of the alt conservative kind I can guarantee you if I did your pastor and deacon / elders would have your head on the collection plate until such time as you repented for your words and accusations . Fact is child … they’d toss you out the door until you made a full and public apology and contrition
Sigh … not only are you a liar … you’re a pathetic liar as well … too stupid to know when to quit .
jt, If my pastor read what you have said to me, and what I have said to you, he would have no problem at all with what I have said to you. And he would agree with me that you are an infidel.
” If my pastor read what you have said to me, and what I have said to you, he would have no problem at all with what I have said to you. And he would agree with me that you are an infidel ”
Like to place .. oh .. lets say … a cool $10k bet on that ? Guaranteed once your pastor catches wind as to who and what I am he’ll most likely kick your posterior from one end of the sanctuary to the other just for daring to contradict me … never mind your false accusations and insults , And guaranteed child … if he’s worth the salary he’s being paid … he knows exactly who I am … seeing as how I consulted for several prominent IFB churches for several years .. till I came to my senses and realized what a bunch of self righteous fraudulent hypocrites most of them are
So hey … church name … city .. state … and show me the money … put up or shut up . Or better yet … just go away
Who are you? What’s your full name?
Folks, relax. Let fools for Christs like Gary keep waiting for the failed Second Coming. Let homeboy troll the blog in peace and ignore his childish rambling about bible god’s imaginary Judgment Day. So he knows how to spot an infidel. Too bad we can’t drop him in the Middle East where folks worry about such stupid things. Gary obviously has a bromance with Frank which is why he trolls this blog. LOL! The boy is nuts so why argue with him.
Good point . As well as one I’ve been considering making myself . A troll is a troll and not worth our time and effort .
I guess they think it’s okay as long as they are “trolling for Jesus.” Evangelical trolls are the worst since they think they are doing it for a noble cause. You can be having very pleasant interactions with other rational folks in the comment sections and here they come to ruin the vibe. Just gotta let you know how you’re wrong and they are right and if you don’t shape up and do it their way Jesus is going to drop-kick you to hell.
” The boy is nuts so why argue with him ”
The sole justification is … several good points have been made arguing with its / his hypocrisy that have been to the benefit of others … though granted these last few exchanges have not been good examples of that . Look above to my more lengthy replies where genuine Christian theology and apologetics is being presented
Why argue? One may ask… To flush out and expose for all to see how brainwashed, despotic, and cruel, these Evangelical Drumph supporters are, and why we need to do whatever we can to lawfully rid ourselves of Drumph’s regime, as failing to do so will only serve to embolden the likes of Gary, and lead us all to a civil war, among other wars brewing in Cheetolini’s head.
By engaging Gary who has gone as far as saying: “I know many Baptists that wouldn’t spit on you if you were on fire. Which you will be someday” we can show others how truly EVIL these folks are…
The difference being while they all want horrible things for those who oppose their political/religious views … if that was Gary who was on fire, and for as much as I despise what he stands for and his arrogantly unempathetic hate/fear mongering rants, I would try my best to save his life, for as worthless as it no doubt is. What’s more… I would venture to say that Frank, Nine and TJ Martin would do the same. Although I suspect that TJ would probably take a well-deserved boot to his ass afterward…
Abadie, If you were on fire, I would spit on you.
” Who are you? What’s your full name? ”
Not exactly the response one would expect from an adult male after one has laid a blunt challenge down on the table .
” If you were on fire, I would spit on you ”
Running out of insults and ideas again ? Damn that script is in need of revision
” You don’t believe the Bible, but you feel qualified to tell people how to be a Christian? I disagree with you ”
Of course you disagree . You disagree with everyone . The reality being .. you’re anything but a christian .. never mind a Biblical Christian . A delusional self righteous blasphemous lying hypocrite pretending to be a christian .. maybe … but a Christian ? Not even close .
Ahhh .. but to the important business at hand . Guess what showed up in my inbox this morning after contacting two high ranking friends still active in the IFB ? Hmmm … what could it be .. hmmmm …
( to be continued )
By the way Gory … if Francis Schaeffer were still alive he would not of labeled you a Fundamentalist … though odds are he would of called you …. mental .
And sigh … as for your excreting yet another round of your infantile insults ..
The fact is if I were on fire I’d prefer burning to a crisp over having so much as one solitary drop of your vile secretions coming within a 100 yards of me
What does TJ stand for?
“What does TJ stand for?”
I laid down the initial challenge ; e.g. The name of your church .. city .. and state ..and show me the money … so the rules of the game are … you first … put up or shut up .. Gory
As for whats in my inbox . I’ll give you a hint . Its a comprehensive list of one kind or another .. hmmmmm….
( to be continued )
” Many billions of unbelievers are in Hell today. Right now. Jesus is not who you think he is ”
Wrong again Gory . The Bible clearly states that all who have died are in some form of limbo awaiting final judgement . The only ones in hell are .. well not Satan because according to Scripture he’s walking the earth as we speak .. but his minions and fallen angels
Seriously Gory .. have you ever so much as read a single word in the Bible ? From all the evidence at hand … I’d say … not … and then theres that list in my possession
Well… Thank you, Gary! That is just so kind and considerate of you, and of course, the “Christian” thing to do.
Abadie, You don’t believe the Bible, but you feel qualified to tell people how to be a Christian? I disagree with you .
Gary… That’s because by virtue of supporting a torture advocating despot you are inherently NOT a Christian. So, of course, you would disagree. I mean… Do you really believe that Jesus would advocate for torture, and condemn all those who don’t believe everything written in the KJB to eternal torture?
Margarita, According to the New Testament, Jesus has ALREADY condemned ALL those who don’t believe the Bible to eternity in Hell. Many billions of unbelievers are in Hell today. Right now. Jesus is not who you think he is.
And while I am admittedly no bible expert… I do know that if Jesus were alive today, he would be advocating for Universal health insurance and equality for all, and would be denouncing torture, income inequality, Corporate Amerika greed, racism, slavery, despotism, fascism, etc… What’s more, I am certain that he would NOT be supporting Drumph! Instead, he would be denouncing him and all those who would commit violence in His (Jesus’s) name, or for that matter all those who would commit violence in anyone’s name… Much in the same manner that he did some 2,100 years ago.
Margarita, Since, by your own admission, you don’t believe what is written in the Bible, you don’t believe what the Bible says about Jesus, and you have no idea what Jesus would do if he were here now.
So Gary… Are you now saying that if Jesus were alive today he would support a filthy rich megalomaniac’s desire to take away the health insurance of millions of Americans including those who blindly believe in the KJB, that he would turn his back on the millions who are being exploited by Corporate America, as well as turn his back on all those babies who because through no fault of their own they were born to a different faith and as such are torn from their mother’s arms and thrown into a burning fire, and of course, that he would support Drumph’s efforts to get us all into a nuclear war??? Yeah… Right! Give me a f*cking break!!! Seems to me that if you really believe that Jesus would be doing all these horribly cruel things were he alive today, I would then have to question if, in fact, in your deluded state you are not confusing Him with Satan? Or the alternative… Are you on psychotic drugs???
Margarita, You don’t believe what the Bible says about Jesus or Satan. Stop pretending you do.
Trump is not trying to take health insurance from anyone. If Trump wanted us in a nuclear war, we would already be in one. And Trump is not responsible for what people do in other countries.
Yes we should engage the likes of Bryson as this is a FEMA camp for the deluded evangelicals and lets let Frank Shaeffer provide some needed leadership to our ranks.
I did Government for our Federal Family for over 30 years and all I can say is that the Evangelical fundamentalists are simply unfit to Govern and Frank’s work is so very important to right this ship of state that we are all sailing upon!
I would say let this blog be America’s Fundamentalist re-education camp!
Nine, But you, and Schaeffer, and everyone who believes what you do have nothing of value to teach.
I reiterate Gory ;
The reality is you are nothing more than a load of digital excrement clogging up the pages of a blog’s comments section completely devoid of substance or meaning .
… but as Nine so well put it …. there is a guilty pleasure level of entertainment value and theater having a blasphemous hypocritical lying heretic such as yourself pretending to be a christian on board .
And it sure gives me plenty of opportunities to exercise my Apologetics skills … if not to your benefit .. at least to the benefit of others … showing them there is Truth and sanity in amongst the madness that has descended upon is 😎
,,, and yes Gory … Trump does want to take away health insurance from families children and the poor – Just like he wants to raise your taxes so the likes of myself can pay less – And yes he would love to start a war .. or a nuclear war … fortunately for us Trump is neither king nor god therefore the consequences of doing either have his scared chickenhawk fat ___ed posterior quaking with fear .. as well as Trump’s wanting to end all free publics education … not to mention making it impossible for anyone but the wealthy to attend college .. fact is Gory .. Trump wants to bury the very same people like yourself who were duped into supported him . While elevating those of us of moderate to extreme wealth .. at your cost
So grow up little man and smell the manure pile you’ve buried yourself in . Cause Gory … your kind is screwed under the reign of Trump & Co .
The genuine irony being .. the very people fighting for your well being like myself ,,, are the very same people you profess to hate . Be we moderates , liberals , believers or not .
Begging the question … why in the ___ do I and others bother ? What we should do is what Obama keeps telling us to do . Let you and your kind fall flat on your white trash faces into the despair of poverty … let the GOP bury themselves into the depths of their own incompetence … cause it aint gonna effect me in the slightest .
Except it does … because unlike you Gory … I care about my fellow man . Even the low life waste of good air kind such as yourself .. as per ;
Matt 25 : 34 – 40
34 “Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. 35 For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, 36 I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.’
37 “Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38 When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? 39 When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?’
40 “The King will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.’
jt, Do you plan to give the government more than they ask you for?
jt, You have made it VERY plain that you hate me and all other Christians. So save the BS about how you care for your fellow man. You might care about those who agree with you, and I doubt that, but you certainly don’t care about those who disagree with you. Nobody on my side of the fence believes your lies. We believe you hate us because we have seen it.
The Bible does not teach that people go into some sort of “limbo” upon death. Instead, the Bible teaches sinners go straight to Hell, and will stay there until the final judgment, at which time they will be put into the Lake of Fire. See Luke chapter 16.
Tell ME about it Nine. Look that I’ve dealt with deluded sorts, but NEVER on this magnitude! These Evangelicals are bat sh*t crazy! And boy!! Are they sadistic!!!
Margarita, I doubt that any Christian has ever harmed you. And since you choose the road you take, you can hardly blame Christians for not caring what your choices bring to you.
Gory .. you know nothing … period .
What does TJ stand for? I want to know who you are so I can ask my pastor if he has ever heard of you.
Matt 25 : 41-46
“41 “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42 For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43 I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.’
44 “They also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?’
45 “He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.’
46 “Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”
As always Gary… You are wrong on all counts. For the record… I grew up in a very Anglican Christian family in which we read the KJB bible every day and went to church every Sunday where I especially loved to sign in the church choir.
Then when I was 13 years old, I was raped by my church’s priest (who was in his 50’s) after which I was told that it was my fault because I had seduced him, that I should repent, and that if I tried to cause trouble by talking about it, god would see to it that I went to hell for being a Jezebel. So, of course, I kept quiet and said nothing.
Thing is, about three months later, and not even knowing that I was pregnant, I had a miscarriage. Needless to say, I was terrified to tell anyone, so I never saw a doctor, all of which resulted in a septic infection that almost killed me. Finally, after two weeks of being prodded with endless questions, accusations, and quite a few beatings by my “good bible reading Christian family,” I eventually told who had raped me, the result of which landed me excommunicated from my church, labeled a whore by my “good Christian family,” and sent off to a boarding school, while my family sucked up to my rapist in the hopes that they wouldn’t also be excommunicated from their “beloved” church, and forced to lose face amongst their hypocritical friends and peers. All of them vying for being the “elite” on the who is who totem pole!
Three years later, during the height of the Argentine Dirty War, I was arrested by the secret police for no other reason than because I was with a group of friends listening to The Beatles, and taken off to a clandestine detention center where I experienced first hand the horrors of torture, and witnesses countless atrocities perpetrated against pregnant women, and even babies… All of which were sanctioned by the Catholic church.
It was at that point that I realized that a great many of these so-called “Christians” were anything but, and that Hell was a place here on earth designed by very EVIL non-godly humans, as opposed to somewhere in the Cosmos, and vowed that if I survived, I would never EVER read the bible again, nor be a part of any organized for profit “Christian” religion, or any other organized religion for that matter.
Instead, and as the survivor that I am, I chose to live my life embracing, love, beauty, kindness, compassion, music, dance, the arts, and all that is good, as opposed to nurturing anger, and hatred towards those who have hurt me and/or others. Not to say that at times I find some people such as these die-hard-bible- thumping Drumph supporters to be highly obnoxious and irritating, and at times even scary. But overall, I do my best, not to allow anyone to take away my enjoyment of life from me.
As for “Christians” not caring what choices I bring to myself… I really don’t give two flying fucks, what they think about me! I know who and what I am. And nothing they can ever say will ever sway me from my conviction that a very large number of them, in particular, Catholics and Evangelicals … are the biggest fucking judgemental hypocrites to have ever roamed this earth!
To wit, and as far as I’m concerned, they and you can all go fuck yourselves, with MY blessings, and probably God’s blessing too!
I am sorry about what happened to you. But you are right, those who hurt you were not Christians, even though they claimed to be. I understand better why you are so bitter against God and so hate Christians. There are lots of fake Christians in this world, sadly.
Gary… I am neither bitter towards God, nor do I hate anyone. And my reasons are that I know that it wasn’t God who raped and tortured me. Evil humans did. And it’s not that I really repudiate the bible per say, it’s just that my experiences have taught me, that the bible can be misconstrued and used to manipulate others through fear, as well as justify some very heinous acts, all in the name of Jesus and/or God. Hence my skepticism towards it.
So while you insist that God will punish me and put me in hell for not “believing” everything in the bible, I have already been to Hell and back again, and as such know that whatever higher power there may be out there (whether it be God or something else) has not forsaken me. And the reason I know this, is because I have prayed, desperately and fervently so, and my prayers have been answered. My proof is that I am alive. In fact, I am one of the very few “desaparecidas” who survived that brutal fascist and totalitarian regime. Not only that, but my prayers continue to be answered to this day.
As for your repeated request to prove that torture is evil… In the context of all things, I can’t prove much of anything. But having endured it, I would ask take my word on it that it really is evil, and perhaps reconsider your opinion about those who advocate for torture?
As for what happened to me, I do feel that you are being sincere when you say that you are sorry. But please don’t be, as I have since come to cherish what happened, not only because it was character forming and made me stronger, but more importantly because it opened my heart and has made me very empathetic towards the suffering of others. I also very much appreciate your acknowledgment that those who hurt you were not Christians, even though they claimed to be.
As for my religious views… After spending a lifetime searching for answers, travelling, and talking to people of all faiths and walks of life, I have come to understand more and more that it’s not so much about “believing” in any particular doctrine and/or book, as much as it’s about having a relationship with the forces of good, as opposed to the forces of Evil. Which is why I have embraced the teachings of Jesus when it comes to that love is the only way to go, and have worked hard on letting go of my anger towards those who hurt me so many years ago, as all those feelings ever did for me, was to rob me from enjoying all that was still good in my life. And have also since adopted the teaching from other faiths including the wisdom of the Native American people. Which and on that note you will find no different than those of Jesus.
Two Wolves – A Cherokee Parable
An old Cherokee chief was teaching his grandson about life…
“A fight is going on inside me,” he said to the boy.
“It is a terrible fight and it is between two wolves.
“One is evil – he is anger, envy, sorrow, regret, greed, arrogance, self-pity, guilt, resentment, inferiority, lies, false pride, superiority, self-doubt, and ego.
“The other is good – he is joy, peace, love, hope, serenity, humility, kindness, benevolence, empathy, generosity, truth, compassion, and faith.
“This same fight is going on inside you – and inside every other person, too.”
The grandson thought about it for a minute and then asked his grandfather,
“Which wolf will win?”
The old chief simply replied,
“The one you feed.”
Margarita, I never said torture is not immoral. But you can’t prove it is immoral. .
I’m not going to argue theology with you any more. You make your own choices, and if they turn out to be wrong, well, that’s your misfortune.
Gary… I don’t need to prove that torture is immoral because having experienced it and witnessed it done to men, pregnant women, and even babies, I KNOW that it is not only immoral but also exceptionally evil. I also know that if there really is an omnipotent, omniscient, all-knowing and all-benevolent god, it would be a pantheistic god as opposed to a personal god that only concerns itself with the fates and actions of mortal humans. Not only that, but it most decidedly wouldn’t have the ego and narcissism requiring all of humanity to worship it as mandated only in the KJV of the bible, under the penalty that if they don’t, they’d be sent to hell to endure eternal torture. Sorry, but such a notion is beyond ridiculous!
If I may Ms Abadie … what they are is much like the Roman Catholics during the Inquisition a delusional bunch of hypocrites desperate for power willing to sacrifice any and all aspects of the Truth in the quest for that power they crave so much … because deep within their being they already know their day is done . Which is but one more sign of our being ensconced within a Historical Transitional Age
A book recommend on the subject ( transitional ages ) seeing as how all evidence points towards you being a well educated individual ;
” At the End of an Age ” by noted secular * historian John Lukacs .
Quite the prescient book considering when it was written ( 2002 )
And for a good look at how we got where we are today .. his book ” Democracy and Populism ; Fear & Hatred ” … written in 2005
* Full discloser . John Lukacs is also a devote Catholic .. of the kind you wish there were more of
TJ… Although I haven’t yet read his books, I am quite familiar with his works. In a nutshell, “At The End of An Age” at least to my understanding can be summarised, as the end of the European Age, or if you will, the end of The White Man’s Age. As for his book ”Democracy and Populism; Fear & Hatred” I have this article on file which summarises his work.
My personal opinion being is that we are currently at a crossroad of the Ages if you will. Where the outcome will vastly fall on the choices that we as Americans will be making in the present and immediate future. Which is why, and referencing an earlier comment you made about people stubbornly voting for a candidate who couldn’t win, or not voting at all … it is so important that we all get off our asses, and start taking responsibility for whom we allow to govern us. As it is not only our own fate that hangs on a thin thread but the fate of the entire world at large that hangs in the balance.